Half-Life 2

[Yian]

I know that everyone is pretty much hyped about this game. I read an article at Firingsquad recently, and it gave me some thougts that I would like to share with you guys...

I think what impressed me the most from that E3 video was the enemy's AI. However, as they have said, there is no way AI could have been that nice. Remember Gorden (in the demo) knocked off a monitor and the scientise said "oh do be careful..."...? Well, will that be in the actual game?

And the strider who tried to blow off the brifge then decided to crawl underneath it instead? That could have been entirely scripted.

Also, the AI of those little dudes who follows you to fight the Combine, their behaviors are way too nice, and now come to think about it, I think those might have been scripted as well...

What do you guys think? Will the game be as good as it was in the demo?

[RADiator]

The "do be careful" thing is entirely scripted. I’m not sure about the strider and the other "situations" though. But hell I will play it anyway :)

[Rhenna]

Let me start off by saying that I haven't read the Firing Squad article, primarily because, historically, they have had their heads up their fannies so often, I've written them off completely as to credibility. Let me guess, are they taking little potshots at HL2?

The original HL had a TON of scripted events throughout the game. The entire rail-car trip into Black Mesa at the start of the game is an example. To a great extent, they served to give the game it's well-deserved reputation as a far-above-average gaming experience. But, they shouldn't be mistaken for AI. The best examples of AI in the original HL are, IMO, the soldiers, and I wouldn't describe that as exceptional, but Valve was careful not to create scenarios where AI shortcomings would be highlighted.

If a game "works", that is to say, if you're enjoying yourself, who really cares about how the crew who put the game together pulled that off?

[RADiator]

I think we should also consider the development period. In the recent interview the valve crew stated that they started on HL2 right after HL. That means 5 years in development (if my memory serves me correctly). So I will not be surprised to see something completely revolutionary in the game. And also I would like to make another step by calling the game: Instant classic. Yes even if HL2 shall fail to live up to its name there is always a moding community there to support it.

[RAY16]

The thing that impressed me most was the physics. The facial expressions also got me all hot and bothered. I don't really care about AI, as long as its not so dumb that it runs right at me with a pistol even though i have a goddamn rocket launcher.

[cr3am]

Originally posted by Yian
Also, the AI of those little dudes who follows you to fight the Combine, their behaviors are way too nice, and now come to think about it, I think those might have been scripted as well... what was nice about them? all they did was go where the grenade landed and kill people

[NiteX]

Im pretty sure we have no way of knowing untill we play the game ourselves but i am expecting this game to be one of the most realistic AI and best FPS ever to be created and i think it might well far pass the original.... i think all those seens with the monitor and the little friends u saw were all AI....why cant AI be that advanced do u doubt valve would they lie? or do u guys doubt technology?.....no matter what i am with valve 100%

[Mrchimp]

when you script an event you know how good it's going to be, when you rely on AI to make an event good it could go horrible wrong.

For exaple what if the strider decided it wasn't going to bother going under the bridge and just walked off in the opposite direction.

[cr3am]

Originally posted by Mrchimp
For exaple what if the strider decided it wasn't going to bother going under the bridge and just walked off in the opposite direction. great point

[RADiator]

Originally posted by Mrchimp
when you script an event you know how good it's going to be, when you rely on AI to make an event good it could go horrible wrong.

For exaple what if the strider decided it wasn't going to bother going under the bridge and just walked off in the opposite direction. I doubt that...I mean they have to have some kind of priority system to direct them.

[ghiop]

Personally, I don't care whether it's scripted or not. If I can't tell when I play, then hey, it works. If it's lame AI pathing, then that would be disappointing, but it seems like they could code something classy for AI teammates. I mean, they've had five years now to design these things, or at least think about them.

[cr3am]

yeah, they said that when the teammates followed you that it was completely AI, no scripting... but i guess when it comes out, we'll just have to try the same thing in three different directions

[Yian]

Didn't one of them tried to follow and got shot by that auto-gun? He was just as stupid as real-life human, which is good! Enemy AI sometimes in games are "too smart", I hope in HL2 there is such thing as trick the enemy.

[cr3am]

yeah, and i hope the enemy doesn't have perfect aim, and can see you from a million miles away

[ReDeeMeR]

I wouldnt worry about HL2's AI, it's like thinking Doom3 graphics could suck, that's one useless article on firing squad.

And there has been so many of them lately, like previews that basicaly ripp the one from PC gamer and cheap Q&A's:

Interviewer: Is Gman an alien?

Gabe Newel: ....

Interviewer: Why is Gman wearing a blue suit, is this somehow related to his childhood?

Gabe Newel: ....wtF?

Sites just slap together HL2 related useless shit to get more clicks. Damn time wasting scum :)

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by Yian
What do you guys think? Will the game be as good as it was in the demo?

I think those were all in game shots, action clips and in game cut scenes. Those dudes most likely have a set path to run and set objective ie to kill the combine soldiers or something else in addition to AI, they could duck in different positions and shoot randomly and shout out something at random to.

AI+ Scripted events and fixed paths/objectives is the only way to make a "story" based gameplay, otherwise it'd be a bot match.

[Mrchimp]

Originally posted by RADiator
I doubt that...I mean they have to have some kind of priority system to direct them.

To do what exactly...

I'm sure killing you is it's highest priority but a true AI would consider other options like walking around the bridge or just shooting from behind it, if your suggesting that the scripter made going under the bridge to get to you it's highest priority then that would be scripting.

I'm not sure if that was a scripted event or not, thinking about it the strider that went under the bridge seemed to be going after a particular scientist who was running away from the bridge instead of hanging about and fireing at it. Programming an AI to change the way it's walking to get around objects wouldn't be impossible and niether would makeing it try to blow things up first before going around them but...

Ok I'v just proved myself wrong, but it still could be scripted :rolleyes:

[cr3am]

ok, so imagine it's not scripted and a human runs the other way. The strider decides to follow the guy, but can't seem to kill him. That's the quick way to get rid of the strider....

[Mrchimp]

Do you mean if he run's through the striders legs before it gets chance to blow up the bridge?

I suppose that could happen but I think the strider would eventually come for you if it couldn't find him or kill him, unless you had buggered off by that stage in wich case you have missed a good part of the game.

[Yian]

I guess the scripting is necessary to direct the plot of the game. Some people who are impressed by the demo hoped that it was all AI because it means that they will see different things each time they play. But setting up such AI is quite difficult, and even if they do make them that smart, I think the plot will be none-existant since it is so easy to change how the game's direction goes.

But a lot of hypes are building on how smart the AI in HL2 are. One of the most stupid example of blind follower of hype is PC Gamer magazine. It's exclusive article was like a huge advertisement for HL2 and all their words sound like from a bunch of fanboys. The article do nothing of letting us know how close the E3 demo and the actual game are to each other.

In my opinion, this myth of AI is just like Unreal II's graphics. People simply ignored the things that make a game great because of some details that don't fit their preference. Half-Life 2 might have exceptional AI but I believe they will rely heavily on scripts in order to set the mood of the game right. But some gamers will get upset and say "oh so those are all fake" and simply ignore how much fun the game actually provides simply because it is scripted instead of real AI.

If AI can completely replace scripting system, Valve would be working for Pentagon now instead of making video game, and that's not a good thing because we really need good game developers stay in business so we have more high-quality games to play.

[Mrchimp]

Like people have said before "if i think it's intelligent it deosn't matter whether it's AI or scripting" and to be honest scripting and AI are normally used to do different things.

PC magazines suck up to some game developers so they get world exclusives, but they often do get very exited about these things and say stuff that is just pure specualtion.

[ghiop]

I didn't think the PC Gamer article was entirely unbalanced. Well, let me rephrase that. I didn't think it was unreasonably unbalanced. It's entirely in keeping with the way things are.

I mean, almost every game sounds like the best thing ever or something when the only information is coming from the developer. I don't have the issue handy, but I like to reread the old issues and look at those things. The E3 previews are always good, just cause they hype some games and leave others out, and it never turns out like that.

[Mrchimp]

Well the english PC gamer preview was pure hype and so was the preview for Unreal2 and any other FPS thats has good graphics, anyway what are they going to say about Half-life 2? oh this looks like a load of dog piss, yeah thats really going to sell :rolleyes:

[future man]

I seriously doubt that HL2 needs any hype at all.

[cr3am]

what HL2 did was they LET the websites release a shitload of HL2 shots... but they only gave them low quality images of cool stuff. When that happens, everybody sees it and imagines it ten times better. So when they plant a SS here and there that they "didn't want", it's really them trying to get you hyped.

[Mrchimp]

the first HL2 shots I saw were in a magazine so that didn't happen for me but it did for the max payne 2 shots, they were all blurred so it made it look really good but i picked up a magazine today and they look ok but definitly not photo realistic like somepeople were saying :rolleyes:

[Yian]

I was seriously shocked when I realize that is an in-game shot, though. Some of the shots look way too realistice...

Of course, it look like shit when you get up close, but when you are fighting aliens and soldiers, your focus change and the enviroment around became more convincing, and according to the degree of photorealism HL2 provides, it might make you feel like it is real.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

hl2 is the shit.. i am now an official hl2 whore.. i watch the 500 meg video everyday.. masturbate on it and have an hl2 insignia on my both buttcheeks!.. it rocks!

[Rhenna]

Don't mind me, I'm just spending a moment imagining a guy, er, enjoying himself, with two orange Greek letters tattooed on his fanny. Oh, my head hurts... :eek:

"Ah, Gordon! It's good to see you!"

[TRUCKIN]

YAY, halflife 2 is coming out when I get it im gonna get my fucking head choped off by an ass clown alien because I've never played the first one.

[Yian]

Originally posted by Rhenna
Don't mind me, I'm just spending a moment imagining a guy, er, enjoying himself, with two orange Greek letters tattooed on his fanny. Oh, my head hurts... :eek:

"Ah, Gordon! It's good to see you!"
"Why do we all have to wear these ridicules ties..."

[Mrchimp]

When I get Half-life 2 I'm going to make 50 ft billboard on top of my house with a gigantic half-life 2 logo on it and then play it untill I die of thirst.

[Yian]

I was thinking about modifying my PC into something related to HL2, too. But I'm not sure where to start, though.

[TRUCKIN]

Originally posted by Yian
I was thinking about modifying my PC into something related to HL2, too. But I'm not sure where to start, though. A fucking head crab.

[Mrchimp]

Well you could start by painting it orange and putting the HL2 logo on it.

[Yian]

Originally posted by Mrchimp
Well you could start by painting it orange and putting the HL2 logo on it.
That sounds like a good start point. I'm also thinking about getting a new case, so I might do that when I decide what case to get. A logo and orange color sounds quite ordinary. I'm planning something a bit different right now....:D :D

[Mrchimp]

Ok how about you make a huge modle of freeman and stick all you pc parts in it.

[Yian]

Nah, let's just forget about this thing. I have no money to modify anyting.

[Chimera[NL]]

How about taking a red crowbar and smashing some serious dents into your case? That both modding your pc aswel as HL2 related!:D

[Yian]

Yeah, and my PC will be all Half-Life 2 related except it can't play Half-life 2!:rolleyes:

[Rhenna]

For someone creative, (as in, "Yian"), THIS would be a nice theme to use to get a little Half Life look to the standard PC "tower" case.

[Yian]

Wow That is ane AWESOME idea!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do itI'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it

Thanks! Rhenna you rule!

I can't believe that I haven't thought of this...!!!! Shit I'm NOT creative...