Taiwan defies China

[Yian]

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=8B588D39-2B8E-4EE4-945C7EB3946F6952

Guys! We must show Taiwanese support on this one! We must not let Chinese ruin Taiwan with any stinky war! Here is why:

- For you gamers, Taiwan is where NV30 and R300 chipsets were manufactured. ATI's boss was literally a Taiwanese while Nvidia's only foundry is in Taiwan.

- For you hardware enthusiasts, Aser, Asus are all Taiwanese companies. You want good motherboards, right?

- For Norton Anti-Virus guys: Taiwanese creates more than 5000 virus each year. They keep you stay in business!

We must support Taiwan! If it got nuked or something, no hardware to play games!!!! :(

[ihateyou]

Originally posted by Yian
- For you hardware enthusiasts, Aser, Asus are all Taiwanese companies. You want good motherboards, right?
Chinese bastards!

[koster]

and how are you going to support them ?:rolleyes:

[RADiator]

Originally posted by Yian
If it got nuked or something... Most unlikely. All though the situation is a bit negative at the moment but I am convinced that China will not invade. I also think Taiwan has all the rights to become independent.

[Yian]

Originally posted by koster
and how are you going to support them ?:rolleyes:
If you see a Chinese and happens to have a conversation on this topic, choose to be on Taiwanese's side!

[Odm]

Originally posted by Yian
[url]- For Norton Anti-Virus guys: Taiwanese creates more than 5000 virus each year. They keep you stay in business! Go Taiwanese! Viruses are my friends!

[AVataRR]

viruses sounds more correct that virii.. virii sounds like a hoity toity term.

[TheKua]

*cough...um im not chinese...heheh...Go taiwan!!! *nervous look*

[Shadow]

Originally posted by AVataRR
viruses sounds more correct that virii.. virii sounds like a hoity toity term.

Yep, it's viruses. Virii isn't correct.

[Hitman]

China has been saying for months that they will not let Taiwan become independant, and also that any further steps toward that will result in war.. with an army 2.4 million strong they can't be stopped.

[Odm]

Why does China want to keep Taiwan so badly?

[ihateyou]

Originally posted by koster
and how are you going to support them ?:rolleyes: Jumping around like idiots with trash cans in our hands with the word Taiwan written in red ink.

[Hobbes874]

My mom is from Taiwan and I've been there a couple of times, so go Taiwan!!

[GoldenNugget]

Yeah my father is taiwanese so I'm going with Taiwan.

[Downfall]

*flips coin*

well its heads...so ill go with Taiwan

[future man]

I could really care less either way.

[Hitman]

If they were to go in I hope the UN would step in and deal with the situation.. the US is getting tired of babysitting the damn globe.

[Yian]

Originally posted by Odm
Why does China want to keep Taiwan so badly?
I believe I know the situation a bit better than most of you guys here, so I think it would help if I explain the situation a bit. I was born in Taiwan, and spent the first 19 years of my life there. I didn't like the place at all but that shouldn't have anything to do with this.

China and Taiwan was one unifies country for almost 1000 years. The first hostorical document which mentioned Taiwan was The Hisory of the Three Kingdoms. This name shouldn't be strange to those of you who played Dynasty Warriors.

Taiwan is not only the gate to the eastern sea of Asia, but also the central location of the ring of the eastern ring of isles, thus the island of Taiwan is strategically important on both economic and military considerations. During the Chin Dynasty, which was the last dynasty of China befoe the first democratic revolution took place, Taiwan was occupied by Spainish, only later again being occupied by Dutch. The remained Ming dynasty loyalists were the outlaws in the main land of China at that time, thus they decided to settle in Taiwan. Dutch soldiers had guns and cannona but Chinese won anyway. This was the beginning of the first serious settlement.

Then the loyalists in Taiwan eventually surrendered to Chin, which was around 200 years ago, and more and more people from the south-eastern region of China started to move into Taiwan for the benifit of trade and fishing. For the past 5000 years of Chinese Taiwan, no other province has ever been as rich as Taiwan due to its unique location and culture.

When Chin dynasty grew weak, foreign powers invaded and Chinese had little power to resist the metal-plated gunships and the combat equipments from the West, the fruit of Industrial Revolution. Japan invaded at the same time, and Taiwan fallen under their control. Though Japanese never treated Taiwanese with equalty and dignity, they invested huge amount of resources in the basic construction to convert Taiwan into a productive land that could compete with modern worlds, in order to boost their food production to aid their war efforts in the future. During the Japanese occupation, Taiwan, like it has alwas been, advanced far quicker than other regions in China.

After the rise of the Nationalist Government, China abandoned the Imperial system and became a democratic country. Many regions and big ports and cities, however, are still under foreign powerd control, including Taiwan. The situation won't change until the end of WWII, when China emerged victorious after eight years of hard battles against Japanese. Nationlist China bacame the founding nations of UN, and Taiwan bacame part of China again.

Then Nationlist government were crippled by its corruptions, and Communists took over. Most of the rich people and their soldiers know the life would be tough for them once the Communists took over , so they moved to Taiwan, and for many political reasons the Communist China never actually invaded Taiwan. American's interference was a large part of it.

I was born in the era when Taiwan had been pretty successful on its economy and political system. The system got an overhaul over the years, and 4 years ago we finally elected the first president from a weak political party, and the Nationalists, whi had been in control since the day we came to Taiwan, which was about 100 years ago, finally stepped down. Taiwan today is still facing many challenges; our industries are losing their ground because of the inappropriate government policies, Taiwan right now has a completely screwed up education system, and out cities are less competitant compared too other big cities in China, Japan, or Singapore.

But Taiwan has its own unique culture, for being heavily influenced by Korean, Japanese, and American style of living. For almost 80 years, Taiwan does not have too much contact with China because we were really like nations at war, and people literally hated each other for all the propaganda the tow governments fed their people. Saying that Taiwan shares a large part of culture with China is really a stretch. China is a big country that consist of many different group of people, which speak of different dialects; that's why not all the Chinese immigrant in America could talk to each other. The Chinese restaurant dudes speak Cantonese, the dude who made Counter-Strike speaks Mongolian - so is that guy in NBA, and the chairman of ATI speak Mandarin, which is my language and many other Taiwanese. When I look at the Chinese, I see nothing in common between me and those people.

None of the Taiwanese are willing to be part of China anymore. We have shaped Taiwan the way it is today with our own hand, and China did absolutely nothing but pull our legs: kick us out of UN is one, don't let us join Olympic is one, restricting big companies from other countries to do business with us is one... back in the day wehn IBM came to Taiwan and tried to set up some foundries, China warned them it would "jeoperdize the business relation with China" IBM replied: "Well if China as as many trained personnels to make sdvanced chipsets, then talk to us." When Taiwan is making monitors and memories, Chinese are making toothbrushes and buttons.

Now China is growing strong, and their cause to take back Taiwan is more justified? What kind of act is it when you know that the entire region oppose your authority, and you decided to take it anyway? Isn't that ruthless invasion? Look what Chinese did to Tibet: thousands of poeple, mostly civilians, were killed to serve as a warning. This is barbaric! They will simply do the same to Taiwanese if there is any incompatibility in custom or the system.

There might be little we could, but we must let people know what is going on! taiwan has own the rights to declare iondependence, and of China decided to use force on this, they are not justified!

[Roq]

Asus OWNS!!!! YAY!

[Chimera[NL]]

Originally posted by Hitman
If they were to go in I hope the UN would step in and deal with the situation.. the US is getting tired of babysitting the damn globe.

Well nobody ever asked them to do that in the first place and second, your beloved president doesn't "babysit" the world for us....he does it for his own safety and for you! So don't try to make the US look like the great protector and generous fellow that keeps the puny UN safe!

[Roq]

Originally posted by Hitman
China has been saying for months that they will not let Taiwan become independant, and also that any further steps toward that will result in war.. with an army 2.4 million strong they can't be stopped.

yeah they have a HUGE army so any land connected to them could be overtaken just by mass amounts of people running over there with guns, plus the Japanese LOOOOOVE to die for their country, it's pretty trendy over there

[Rhenna]

I agree with Yian. I've always felt that the threat to Taiwan is very real. Should the Chinese decide to invade, I think it will be very sudden, and come completely unexpectedly, not after weeks or months of rising tensions.

When the skies above and seas around the island are filled with mainland Chinese military forces, it will be way past too late. The U.N. will hem and haw and do their well-practiced "expression of concern", but in the end will do what they're best at, which is nothing. Lacking any military bases in the area, and not wanting to put the Taiwanese populace at risk, the U.S. would be largely powerless. I believe the U.S. would be able to sever any naval re-supply of invading Chinese forces, but that's about all. And, I wouldn't expect much assistance from other nations in the area. God forbid that anybody antagonize mainland China.

So, the economic sanctions will go into effect. For some nations, at least; and for a little while. The World economy will go into turmoil. And then, one-by-one, countries will cave-in and accept that the new status-quo in Taiwan is just that, because that will be the more economically sound way of dealing with the situation. And the Taiwanese people and culture will be sacrificed for the sake of expediency.

I don't have the slightest ill-will towards anyone Chinese, but the Chinese government has shown time-and-time again how repressive they can be. I don't trust the bastards.

[Yian]

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!! I'm so jumpy now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dR.Jester]

China is still communist correct?

[Yian]

Yes it still is, though they have improved by much over the pass decades...

[RADiator]

Ahh communism, initially a brilliant idea of Carl Marks, yet later turned by corrupted dictators into one of the most lethal and deadly weapons of oppression and control. And it still is as deadly as it was before. I red a lot of material regarding communism and its initiall purposes, believe me it wasn't intended to be like this (pretty much the opposite). Really a shame that politics can turn the idea so pure into something so deadly.

[Yian]

Communism would have been the best solution if human nature is always ferfect and caring for the others... too bad it is quite the opposite. I would say that the failure of cummunism is not due to the flaw of the ideologies or the principles, but the flaw of human nature.

[future man]

So, it would of worked if we weren't human? What the hell was that supposed to mean?

[RADiator]

Originally posted by future man
So, it would of worked if we weren't human? What the hell was that supposed to mean? No, no. You misunderstood. It would of work if we (people) would of been more humane (carrying about others, supportive). You see communism is heavily based on people working as a team, as a one synchronized organism. And you cant achieve that without trust and support.

But it also wasn't convenient for politics to have it the way it was meant to be. So instead of bringing their people to the utopia they (as Yian mentioned) "modified" it to gain ultimate control, and brought nothing but regrets and suffering.

[Rhenna]

I'm guessing Yian meant that all human institutions are ultimately fatally-flawed, regardless if they're governmental, religious, etc., because we, as humans, are so imperfect as beings. Sometimes we aspire to things that we can never realistically achieve, much less maintain.

[future man]

Originally posted by RADiator
No, no. You misunderstood. It would of work if we (people) would of been more humane (carrying about others, supportive). You see communism is heavily based on people working as a team, as a one synchronized organism. And you cant achieve that without trust and support.

But it also wasn't convenient for politics to have it the way it was meant to be. So instead of bringing their people to the utopia they (as Yian mentioned) "modified" it to gain ultimate control, and brought nothing but regrets and suffering.

Then it proves itself to be impossible, humans never were able to trust each other and work as a team with full trust. I seriously doubt if we will ever reach a point were we could even begin to think such a system would work.

[RADiator]

Originally posted by future man
Then it proves itself to be impossible, humans never were able to trust each other and work as a team with full trust. I seriously doubt if we will ever reach a point were we could even begin to think such a system would work. Yes unfortunately I have to agree. We will never be able to fully trust someone. I just hope that in the future we will be able to find another utopia (this time the one that works :) ).

[dR.Jester]

What are the odds of China possibly invading or attacking Taiwan?

Don't they have a kickass military courtesy of the United States? :)

[Yian]

http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/28/news/international/sony_china.reut/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

They don't even have PS2? What a world power! No wonder Taiwanese got so pissed when China talks about "unification"!

[Rohan]

although i must say: to hell with F4. :p

[Digital Pimp]

If the China makes the PS2 available how will the people be able to purchase it. They make the equivalent of less than 1 USD a day, if I'm correct. Now, onto my view of the Taiwan incident. I think those Chinese sons of bitches need to be exterminated, the government mind you not the people. They have caused too much pain and problems over there. They commit acts of massive genocide merely to prove as a warning, this my friends is the mind of a truly flawed and messed up government. I support Taiwan all the way and feel they need to break away from China. Though I have a pretty good feeling that the UN will sit back as usual and piss away the debate on Taiwan and allow the invasion to take place. But, America is suffering massive military usuage and deaths right now with the Near East and I feel they will not be able to help Taiwan unless they reinstitute the draft which will be a a bad day. If Bush sends US troops in to Taiwan there will be mass protests against us doing this. Isn't that a bit selfish, I mean we are meant to help our fellow man. We are not meant to sit back and allow a Communist government to come in and place upon an independent people an oppressive, murderous, failed ideal government. I truly fear for your people Yian and hope that China will see the light and will understand that this is a bad move for them. Though I fear they will not and may invade.

[SaintDL]

Originally posted by ihateyou
Chinese bastards!

fuck you

[SaintDL]

i'm proud of the certain cultures that still remains in china. but china today is a corrupt place. and a place of stinking morals.

ever empire has a height. followed by a downfall. China always have the history of their rulers trying to reach that height way before they can. followed by a even faster downfall and defeat.

to me, they're going down already. the biggest height is probably during the industrialisation period where everywhere, people in china are happy to be citizens of that big country and are very cohesive.

taiwan has quite a high level of corruption too, but i hereby don't like china. i shall explain.

Singapore gets it income from ships that land here you see. But since the SARS incident, singapore governer openly blamed China for keeping the truth of such a plague from the world and caused the deaths of many good people indirectly.

Malaysia and some other countries slightly more backward then singapore, have thought of building another canal north of singapore. so ships would need less time to trade. and cheaper. stuffs like that. That would mean our income is totally severed, and Singapore is no more. HOwever they don't have the money to fulfill that dream.

After the SARS period, china decided to fund their project because they don't like what we said about them.

so, fuck china. but leave the shao lin temple alone. i might wanna go there in the future to learn more martial arts.

[Hitman]

So don't try to make the US look like the great protector and generous fellow that keeps the puny UN safe!


LOL.. man you need to wake up and smell the truth, I never said the US keeps the UN safe.. I said the US is playing babysitter throughout half the world.. don't get it twisted.

[koster]

Originally posted by Hitman
China has been saying for months that they will not let Taiwan become independant, and also that any further steps toward that will result in war.. with an army 2.4 million strong they can't be stopped.
Well, with 30 helicopters, only about 12 of which are combat ones (French Gazelle, I beleive), and 150 or so airplanes (most of them are from the 70's era), a few desent tanks, and a shitty navy, there really isnt that much that they can do :o.

[Hitman]

lol.. well they have international support so it should be ok.

[sideshowbob]

Originally posted by RADiator
Ahh communism, initially a brilliant idea of Carl Marks, yet later turned by corrupted dictators into one of the most lethal and deadly weapons of oppression and control. And it still is as deadly as it was before. I red a lot of material regarding communism and its initiall purposes, believe me it wasn't intended to be like this (pretty much the opposite). Really a shame that politics can turn the idea so pure into something so deadly.

I hear you brother! Marksism in theory was a gem: promoting the well being of all - the basis of the Startrek world! Human behaviour however leans to the freemarket/capitalism ideals. Everyone wants to be rich. As far as I know Maslow's pyramid of human needs included walks of life from both spectrums. Since all ppl have need for nice things, the basis of Marksism is flawed. Ppl can be changed however - which is where I think communism in the USSR went overboard. Ppl do however need to be influenced in the way they think. It may sound like control or imprisonment but think about it - ppl in most 1st world countries are prisinors to a capitalist poky.

[MrBored]

Originally posted by sideshowbob
I hear you brother! Marksism in theory was a gem: promoting the well being of all - the basis of the Startrek world! Human behaviour however leans to the freemarket/capitalism ideals. Everyone wants to be rich. As far as I know Maslow's pyramid of human needs included walks of life from both spectrums. Since all ppl have need for nice things, the basis of Marksism is flawed. Ppl can be changed however - which is where I think communism in the USSR went overboard. Ppl do however need to be influenced in the way they think. It may sound like control or imprisonment but think about it - ppl in most 1st world countries are prisinors to a capitalist poky.

I'm all for the original concept behind communism, someone should start a country where you can only join if you want to follow that idea and if you dont you're kicked out. That would filter the greedy people out hopefully. I'm also really sick of the advertising that comes with capitalism, especially pop up ads.

[AVataRR]

well.. there's this north korea place.. only instead of kicking out undesirable people out to other countries, they kick them out of tall buildings, cliffs, and ships in the middle of the ocean. :D :D :D :D

there was this other country called cambodia.. they mashed people's heads in with a mallet! :D

your idea is so great.

[sideshowbob]

Originally posted by AVataRR
there was this other country called cambodia.. they mashed people's heads in with a mallet! :D

At least they didn't waste hordes of bucks re-training.

[Ritz-101]

I am in full support of Taiwan, and I agree that the UN will end up doing nothing. And then Either Bush in his second term or the next pres will have to do something about it, and it will just end up badly. And yeah, that cambodia thing wasnt such a great idea.... didnt turn too well out for the millions who got macheteed. And I hate to burst your commie bashing bubble, but its spelled Marxism, just for future reference.

[blind_mad_cow]

riddle me this!:

Would it be so bad that China held power over Taiwan?

Why do they wish to become independant?

What would they benifit from being independant...other than independant?

these are just a few questions ide like answered if possible.

Originally posted by MrBored
I'm all for the original concept behind communism, someone should start a country where you can only join if you want to follow that idea and if you dont you're kicked out. That would filter the greedy people out hopefully. I'm also really sick of the advertising that comes with capitalism, especially pop up ads.

if this were to happen, people would eventually get greedy again when they are in higher ranks and "persuade" people if neccassary(how ever you spell it) to the thinking of thier own views. Thus, in the end, it would be back to evilness b/c we are human and have human triats(ex. manipulation/greed/bad stuff).

[Yian]

Originally posted by blind_mad_cow
riddle me this!:

Would it be so bad that China held power over Taiwan?

Why do they wish to become independant?

What would they benifit from being independant...other than independant?

these are just a few questions ide like answered if possible.

When Hong Konw was released from the British occupation, or lease, Taiwanese observed carefully so they know how China make policies towand new lands, since it might be very likely to happen to them as well in the future.

It turned out that China turned Hong Kong into a mess. China ignored the problems of mobs rampaging through the streets and were powerless to prevent the big business companies from leaving. The new government turned out to be nothing but a puppet of the Chinese government. The unemployment was rising. All these troubles at hand could not be solved by the people in Hong Kong, because they simply don't have the power over themselves anymore. They have to do everything according to China's instructions, which usually lacks the understanding of Hong Kong's situation and people's will.

Hong Kong had a foreign government that makes it's own laws independetly from the British Parliament. It did a fairly nice job for 99 years but yet it was not a government made of Hong Kong's natives. Taiwan, however, form every pieces of achievements on ther land with their own hand. For 40 years Taiwanese truly believed and enjoyed their democracy, and many people feel close to the government electives and even the presidents, which is an even higher level of democracy American people couldn't even dream of today due to the level of corruption in the US today.

The most important part of this problem is the culture. Right now, Taiwanese and Chinese are seperated by sea, so there are no majot conflicts, at least for now. But look at what's going on with Palestanian and Iserealis... two people that should have never been together are suddenly "united" and we see suicide bombers and troopers that killing boys all the time. Taiwanese people are not that generous to the other races because they have been living on a land with just one race as a 90% majority for most of their life, and so are Chinese. In America we are used to diversity but in Asia there aren't that many people that look different. If China does tak Taiwan, Chinese will definitely not treat Taiwan as "long lost brother", but a "newly occupied region", and it sickens me to just think about the face of those Chinese when they think that Taiwanese is now "inferior".

[blind_mad_cow]

I see, thx...

[Yian]

sorry to revive the old thread, but I really like you guys to see this great comic:

[Downfall]

whats thingi in bottom right say?

[TheKua]

i think it says "democracy"...or am i blind?