Geforce FX sucks

[ReDeeMeR]

You heard that right, you should be one fucking moron to buy those, especialy for what price they are selling now... 500-650 Euros WTF?????

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/nv31-nv34.html

[portzebie]

I know people who have them..... still in the box LOL:)

[Freakonaleash89]

I wouldnt say they suck. And the price will eventually come down. I don't like the idea of a big noisemaker though.

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by portzebie
I know people who have them..... still in the box LOL:)

LOL. maybe they just keep it to sell it on ebay for alot of $ later??


Anyway, the card is so so in preformance, barely keeps up with Radeon9700 and dont give me this bullshit that it keeps up because all of the eye candy is off!!

9800 completely destroys it....

But what really strikes me hard is the image quality, YOU WILL NOTICE IT even if you're no experienced gamer and if you go from Geforce 4 to FX, IQ is terrible, I wouldnt mind the fan as I have shitload of fans and usualy set my speakers very loud.

Also the power and the slot are np, I only have Audigy and the fan in my PCI

Oh and the price should be like 300$ max for FX5800 Ultra and I bet it'll go down real fast, Nvidia just could release a top end for cheap but they have to realize the card is DOOMED lol

I'd buy it for 300$ tho lol

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

With all the hype they came out with crap.. wow cant imagine what a 9800 pro w/ 256 mb be capable of.. i mean if u dont have a barton 3000+ or a p4 3.06 gig whats the fucking use of a 256 mb ddr2 card.. damn i hate it when cpu bottlenecks.. well my 9700 is still on its way.. oh the wait.. when will this torture be over..

btw does anyone know if the 9700 would work fine with a 300W power supply.. i know people recommend 350W atleast but the official site says 300W.. any help will be appreciated.

[ReDeeMeR]

Well you might not get a good overclock with that case. But it will all work just fine ;)

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

in this case.. also one more thing.. how do i overclock my fucking pc and mobo.. and what kit do i need for it?

[NuclearWhale]

From what I understand its not really the speed but the advanced graphical capabilites that it offers.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

go to tomshardware.com, hardocp.com or xbitlabs.com all say that radeon cards have superior image quality and hence, it outperforms in games.. geforce fx may take the lead in terms of professional usage but quadro is already there and killing firegl so why would a mainstream or even a hardcore gamer get a geforce fx for 400 bucks when he can get a fucking radeon all in wonder for 280 bucks on ebay.com.. i mean who needs an fx.. plus radeon 9800 pro just fucks the fx in every possible way.. image quality, speed and especially anisotropic filtering and anti aliasing.. anti aliasing in fx plain sux compared to even a radeon 9700 pro etc..

[Rhenna]

A 300W power supply CAN be enough for a system, but it's gotta be a REAL 300W supply, not a Sears 300W supply. Most generic supplies are junk. Yeah, sometimes you get lucky, but do you really want to take a chance with the other $1000 worth of hardware in your PC? What I would recommend, and I learned this the HARD way, is that you would be better off with a 350-400W supply from a quality manufacturer like Enlight, Enermax, Inwin, Delta, PC Power & Cooling or some of the upscale units from Antec. Pay the money and put your mind at ease.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

I was already thinking of adding a new fan on the case as it does have a nice fan slot and also upgrading my power supply to 430 W or something like that.. will do that when i get my card..

[sushi128]

well, as always, performance will see improvements over the next few driver updates. but i agree, this FX was a real let down....

[Hobbes874]

i dunno if it "sucks" but it is damn expensive and i'd rather buy a radeon :D

[Yian]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
You heard that right, you should be one fucking moron to buy those, especialy for what price they are selling now... 500-650 Euros WTF?????
GeForce FX is a big disappointment, we have been knowing that for some time... Some people argued that it is the driver that could not release the full potential of the card. But if there is a driver that can boost up a card for 4 times, I think they don't even have to build such hardware. Just give that driver to Geforce4 would be more than enough to beat R300 chipset. A very lame excuse.

I have been looking forward to this "NV30" as soon as they said they are gonna make it. And I was one of those many who were disapponited. Nvidia will try to fight back, of course, and I hope they can do better...

[ReDeeMeR]

Yeah, I've red some article that explains that drivers cant make a big preformance impact and it's just a myth unless there was a bug that prevent the card from working 100% plus usualy drivers increase preformance to one particular aplication wich isnt all that great, since those apps are usualy the ones tech sites always use to benchmakr like 3dMark or quake3 etc and other games dont get any improvement.

Also improving preformance at the cost of Image quality isnt acceptable either, hell I can always go to driver settings and pull everything down, but I'M NOT GOING TO PAY 500-600 Euros for a peace of shit image with washed out colors and antialiasing that doesnt do jack shit.

NV35 on the other hand is expected to be VERY powerfull so I think I'm gonna try and pull of with my current card till it comesw out 8) Should be announced Q2 this year.

[sushi128]

inquirer had a few preliminary numbers for us to chew on. somethin like GFX around 48fps and the NV35 around 111 (4x AA, all that jazz) . i'm sure some of you saw it, and should have gave a cold shoulder like i have. inquirer is not to be trusted...

anyway, drivers often need optimizing. nvidia likes to play with IQ vs. FPS on beta drivers, but their releases have had a very good record of stability.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

Fuck Inquirer.. hehe

and For all the bullshit i have seen thus far even the 9800 pro fuck it all really.. u can fucking convert ur 9700 or 9700 pro to 9800 pro with better cooling ofcourse but damn.. marketing hype really makes things sell.. people are already ordering it.. damn for 10 more fps.. this card aint worth the 100 bucks.. as for aniso and aa being more powerful.. hack the damn 9700 bios and it will work the same.. the only thing that will be cool is ddr2 mem if they use it on 256 mb cards that is..

[sushi128]

the 9800 pro simply isn't worth it. from the numbers so far, it looks like around a %10 performance gain.....for $400. lets say u sell your 9700 for $250. that %10 gain isn't worth $150. great card, will be quite a beast, but like the GFFX, only for people who don't have price in mind.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

or actually for the fucking morons who dont wanna use their minds.. damn

[ReDeeMeR]

Actualy I think We'll see bigger gap between Radeon9700 and Radeon9800 in something like Doom3 or maybe Deus Ex2.

[sushi128]

lets not be bashing people for how they spend their money. if they want the best, the best is the 9800 or GFFX(ultra).

[IkYiolul]

thats a definite! the new games are going to define which cards perform better...quake3 is simply not something to base comparison on anymore, since my friend is getting max frames in it at max res and details, with his ti4200...shit I still run at 90fps! you dont even see the difference much after 40

[Yian]

Just a tribute to a dead thread... and a tribute to a video card that failed to deliver what it has promised... an ass card...

[Rhenna]

I'll throw another log on this funeral pyre.

[sushi128]

i've been reading threads around the tech world, and it seems that after a revision or two in drivers, the GFFX cynics have pretty much faded away. i'm actually glad people were thoroughly disappointed by the performance(with all that hype); it leaves the controversial card with nowhere to go but up :)

[ReDeeMeR]

Man the card only sucks and blows, there absolutely nothing good about it, from preformance to IQ to noise and price.
If you would've done any research then only most hardcore nvidia fanboys seem to think that GFX is worth a damn.

Hell Nvidia knows that, they are completely abandoning it and trying to launch nv35 asap.

[Yian]

Well, Geforce FX might be really bad, but it is mostly due tot he bad business management, not because the card it self is bad...
if this thing can just come out on time, it might be a good stuff. Nvidia's card always has better drivers, and better compatibilities than ATI's card, and it is more tweakable on many other things other than clock speed, and it has more features (some of them gamers will never approciate)...

But this NV30 deal has many things I really, really don't like...

1) Two slots on my case!? There has to be another to cool the card without double its thickness...

2) Why is it so damn loud!?

3) It is just not as fast as it promised. The reason I didn;t buy Radeon 9700 pro when it was out is because I "thought" NV30 is gonna "beat the shit out" of 9700 pro, like by 20 or 50%... shit it didn't happen.

4) Only performs better than 9700 when it is on extremely high resolution. But let's see: how many differetn kind of resolutions are there and how many of them is good with NV30, or with 9700 pro? And just how many people out there has a monitor supports 1600x1200? (my monitor goes as high as 2048x1536...)

5) When Nvidia openly criticized the new 3DMark03 saying it is not well designed to show the true strength of NV30 chipset, I was like "yeah right..."

(sigh...)

(sigh...)

Well, what can I say? (sigh...)

[ReDeeMeR]

That's not bad business management Yian, that's retarded engineering decisions. And overhype.

"ARE YOU READY?" :p

And it's really the other way around man, Radeon9700 wins in extreme high quality and resolution settings due to it's superior memory bandwith.

[sushi128]

christ redeemer, how bout you stop being so sure about everything??? :)

http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/NVIDIA/FX5800U/

and who cares if it takes 2 slots in your case? maybe you don't tweak or overclock, but if you did, you'd know the PCI slot below the AGP shares an IRQ with the AGP, and thus, you would NEVER use that PCI slot (might as well use it for somethin like cooling the vid card).

so damn loud? i doubt you've heard it, cause then you'd realize it's unnoticeable in all but stealth modded rigs.

it's not just nvidia that's criticizing 3Dmark03. a lot of the tech world has deemed it an inaccurate representation of 3D capability (even though the GFFX does beat the 9700 pro in it). i've takin it off completely. it's useless as far as i'm concerned.

[Yian]

Ok ReDeeMer you screw up big time because I'm damn sure GeForce FX beats 9700 at hi-res. You are wrong....hahaha

hold on...

If wht you mean by at high-resolution also inculdes turnning up all the settings (AA, AF) to the maxium, um, Geforce Fx sucked at an unbelievably bad rate. Memory bandwidth does count, but I think Radeon 9700 Pro's design itself is just so much better when it comes to handling the fancy stuff.

I wonder how could the dudes in Nvidia call this junk "the dawn of cinimatic expreinece" whent this shit can't even handle the most basic stuff, while Radeon 9700 sure did a fantastic job.

Yep, we are all very fucking disappointed. Hope Nvidia do well on NV35.

[Yian]

Originally posted by sushi128
so damn loud? i doubt you've heard it, cause then you'd realize it's unnoticeable in all but stealth modded rigs.

Human has eyes? I doubt you ever saw it because everytime I see a human sleeping I don't see any thing like eyeballs on their face...

Yeah right and everyone is going to get a new case, and get a new mo-bo if the case doesn't fit, some new rams if the mo-bo supports only DDR, some new power supply if it is running at the edge, and some nice looking black-lights if your case has a window, and some nice-looking cables...

...and some burgers while at it, maybe even some porn magazines, the boots looked kinda ugly so get a pair of new ones, maybe get a cap, too, and oh look at that fishing pole isn't that sweet? so you get a new fishing pole, all these talking then you go grab something to drink...

See how much money you spen just for a Geforce Fx card? :p

Haha... my point is that Geforce FX is loud in the default settings, and I'm very curious about the stealth modded case you're talking about. If that thing can silence Geforce FX, I'm gonna buy that thing because it can definetely silence my harddrives, since Geforce FX is 5 times as loud as my harddrives.

[Yian]

ReDeemer, do you think it is possible to silence Geforce FX?

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128

so damn loud? i doubt you've heard it, cause then you'd realize it's unnoticeable in all but stealth modded rigs.



Actually...it is pretty damn loud...i heard it on toms hardware guide (youve heard of that site i know it) but they posted mp3s on how loud it is compared to ati 9700pro and its sooo damn loud even they had a model and said it was unbearable...so thats all i gotta say bye have a nice day cafe

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by Yian
ReDeemer, do you think it is possible to silence Geforce FX?

Sure, get one of them orb coolers or the zalman heatsink and some small fans...

[Rhenna]

While I'm not certain that EVERY mobo's AGP slot shares an IRQ with the adjacent PCI slot, to be entirely fair with sushi128, I think most of us wouldn't crowd their video cards by using that PCI slot anyway. I haven't heard one myself, but so many of the respectable hardware sites have commented on the fan noise, there must be something to it. I would be concerned about how that cooling arrangement might get clogged with crud after some time in a less-than-perfect environment. Can it be disassembled easily for cleaning? I personally don't game over 1024 X 728, so for me it would come down to AA and AF performance over FPS. I'm inclined to say that even a 9700 (non-Pro) might have AT LEAST as good image quality as the GeForce, although the GFX would unquestionably be MUCH quicker. As well as $125+ US more expensive. You pay your money and take your chances...

[ReDeeMeR]

Uh huh, Radeon's have superior "Image quality", cant be arsed to look for the links now, but I can do that if you insist.

And I think if you add 4x-8xAA and 8xAF even Radeon non-pro would beat up FX. So for you AA lovers Radeon is teh way to go :D

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
Sure, get one of them orb coolers or the zalman heatsink and some small fans...

Big fans actually make less noise :)

[Yian]

yep. those really big fans in the jet engines don't make noise at all.

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by ZANDAMORPHIS
Big fans actually make less noise :)

Pfff some nice load of bull :p

I guess FX-flow is real fucking small, that's why it makes so much noise :D

[Yian]

Originally posted by ZANDAMORPHIS
Big fans actually make less noise :)
ZAND, I personally think that the reason a big fan makes less noise is because it has less vibration when it is mounted on a heatsink. Also it depends on if it doulble ball-bearing or not... But the size of the fan... usually the bigger, the louder...

[sushi128]

big fans usually do have less noice actually, because they need less RPM's to push the same amount of air. small fans generally have a louder, higher pitched whine.

[ReDeeMeR]

The amount of noise usualy equals the amount of air being blown, but if the fan isnt ball bearing or just shit then ofcourse it will make noise just by spining.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

About the vr-zone.com review.. it sucks donkey balls the reviewer doesnt even know what hes talking abt.. read it carefully and u will find quite unprofessional opinions in there.. anyways.. i have seen the image quality and it blows compared to the radeon 9700 and we arent talking abt the 9800 as yet.. dammit

anyways its always better if u can get hands on experience.. since i couldnt get it i just ordered me a nice 9700.. thank you.. btw i am still pissed at konami for not making ati cards supported for mgs2 substance.. yian can u buy that game and tell me if it works.. coz only then i will purchase it.. damn its so expensive here and is on dvd.. damn i have to pay 3$ s for it.. for that price i can get 6cds.. :D

p.s. i know i am being a cheap bastard so STFU

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by WhoGivesARatsAss
p.s. i know i am being a cheap bastard so STFU

Arent we all? :D

---------------

I'm just going to say that all those reviews that state FX being anything but fiasco are out right lying in yo face. I speak as a customer who believes in Nvidia and I'm still waiting for their redemption with NV35(:D), you can almost call me fanboy because all my video cards were nvidia after 3dfx's death.

Nvidia as we all know are the masters when it comes to drivers and they have optimized them like crazy for a special few most used benchmark software to lift FX above of what it really is.

[IkYiolul]

I have a volcano 7+ on my xp 1600+ ...temp around 97
5800 rpm constant.

[sushi128]

i know that review was a little unprofessional, but please look at the pics (which are only invalid if you think they're faked). VR-zone generally has very intelligent reviews (known for their overclocking) and i'll skip over the opinions, looking at the numbers instead. now, i had the pleasure of playing with a PNY GFFX. it sure doesn't live up to the hype, but it's still a close second for the best card avaliable (if you wanna tell me about the 9800, tell me where i can get one first). oddly enough, while i haven't seen them avaliable, a few have received them from pre-orders. must mean they're completely done and manufactured, just not shipping yet.

and of course it's louder than the 9700 pro's fan. i'm only saying that my damn case fan is louder than that "flow FX". people see the fan as a "leafblower"???? most people have at least 3 other fans in their case, and it's pretty much unnoticeable behind it (the rig i worked with had 4 case fans).

about cfm being related to dB, if you look at vantec's stealth series, the 92mm pushes i think 10cfm more than the 60mm and produces the same 20dB sound. i'm sure that doesn't apply in general, but it proves that "cfm proportional to dB" isn't always true.

also, if you aren't going to believe the reviews, then you aren't in any position to make conclusions about the card (do any of you have one?). if you do trust reviews, then you have to take all into account. i've admitted many times what a disappointment the GFFX is, but there are reviews showing a hint of hope for this card, and it would be biased of you not to see it.

btw redeemer, i think you speak of the 42.** drivers. those were released by nvidia to prove a point: that 3D benchmarks could be manipulated by software (although it was shady of them to say it a week after release). the new 43.45 drivers actually give better performance, and have no known "hacks" (unless you count the FP16 precision, which has pretty much been in all the GFFX compatible drivers).

as defensive as i may sound, i don't reccommend any of you buying this card, simply because you can get the same performance (sometimes faster) for less. doesn't make this a bad card though, does it? i mean, it sure kills my Ti4200.....

[Yian]

Wow, thuis is so far the biggest screwed-up shit about GFX I have heard since it was out... hahaha that big ass fan on the GFX card appears to be quite dumb.

http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/gfx5800ultrahatesscreensavers.shtml

Basically saying that sometimes when you're running a 3D screensaver, the fan won't recognize that it is runnung a 3d apps and won't move as fast as it should be, thus the chip sometims can reach 90-100 degrees...

Mother of God! I can already see how many people are jumping into ATI's boat just for this one...

[sushi128]

this will blow over, and it's not such a big deal. it's a bug. ATI's manipulation of the "quack" drivers didn't deter many people, and this is much more minor.

[Yian]

Oh... good for them then. It sort of reminded me the AGP 8X incompatibility bug of Radeon 9700... Yeah. What funny is the fact that nvidia designed such a fancy fan on that card and it has this kind of problem...

[sushi128]

true. i don't even think it's a very good HSF, either. i'd like it if someone replaced it with a TT GF4 cooler, or a crystal orb or somethin, just to test.

[Yian]

Yeah.... The best fan I have seen so far is the one on 3D Prophet 9700 Pro. I can't believe that Hercules made that fan out of copper! Heatsink and cooling fan in one!

[sushi128]

yeah, that thing even has a nice little HS on the back of the core. i know a lotta heat builds up back there.

http://www.guru3d.com/review/hercules/3dprophet9700/img1280/DSC00598.jpg

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
yeah, that thing even has a nice little HS on the back of the core. i know a lotta heat builds up back there.

http://www.guru3d.com/review/hercules/3dprophet9700/img1280/DSC00598.jpg

did u guys see the new 9800 pro by hercules, sickest card ever, thats my card im gonnna get whenever its released... wow i love it...cool as hell led lights and i guess its even better heatsinks than b4 which is soo sweet for o/c ing
wow its sexy :cool:

[Yian]

There isn't too much info about this card yet, and Hercules' product page doesn't even have it. But They do mention some important specs...

http://us.hercules.com/mediaroom/pr/lookpr.php3?pr=186

I have been with Hercules's prodecut for a long time, even before They got bought. Their cards are very reliable. They always manage to squeeze some extra juice out of the original chipset without sacrificing the stability.

[ReDeeMeR]

Yo, check this shit out about Geforce FX5200, just as I told you sushi128(in some other thread proly) FX5200 sucks donkey ballz, it's a downgrade from Geforce 4MX :p

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9350

http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/MSI/FX5200/page5.htm

[Yian]

Gee...!!!! Slower than Geforce4!?

[Rhenna]

As mentioned on another thread, I had about an hour and fifteen minutes to mess with one of these after installation; clearly not enough for a comprehensive evaluation. But enough time for a few impressions.

I guess these are probably $80 - $90 U.S. by this time, at least the OEM versions. So, you get DirectX 9 compliance, 128Mb of DDR RAM, and the ability to do some mild anti-aliasing. Not a bad deal for Nvidia's entry-level card.

But, all the reviews I've read have been based on running this card on rather high-end CPUs. Now, we all understand that we don't want the card to be CPU-limited during benchmarking, but I hardly think that anybody, other than an OEM, is going to use these with an XP2500+ or 2.6GHz P4.

The system I dabbled with was a 1.1GHz Athlon T-Bird. And, I think this is a typical system where the owner might be inclined to view this card as a reasonable upgrade. It ran fine, but I'd wager some serious coin that it wasn't any faster than the GF2 GTS it replaced. So, the owner received some capabilities, but not much at all in terms of improved framerates. The Ti4 4200 still makes more sense to me, even in an older system.

[ReDeeMeR]

Well yeah it's "bit" better then Geforce 2 GTS, but I think I should point out the fun part.

Recent NV cards lined up from slowest to fastest:

Geforce 4 MX "420"
Geforce FX "5200"
Geforce 4 MX "440"
Geforce FX "5200Ultra"
Geforce 3 Ti "200"
Geforce 3
Geforce 3 Ti "500"
Geforce 4 Ti "4200"
Geforce 4 Ti "4400"
Geforce 4 Ti "4800SE"
Geforce 4 Ti "4600"
Geforce 4 Ti "4800"
Geforce FX "5600"
Geforce FX "5600Ultra"
Geforce FX "5800"
Geforce FX "5800Ultra"


To slowest minds out there:

Geforce 4 Ti "4200" > Geforce FX "5200" "Ultra"

[sushi128]

i thought we agreed not to use the inquirer, and you have denounced the validity of VR-zone many times.

that aside, take a look at the whole test. now, the 5200 does better in FSAA, agreed? and the 5200(NON-ultra) does better at 1600 x 1200. the difference at 1024 x 768 is marginal, so safe to say they're pretty much equal (in terms of balance). the geforce 5200 (non ultra) retails for 100$. the cheapest MX440 DDR i found retails for 100$, so we'll use that. the 5200 comes with 128mb DDR, the 440SE comes with 64mb DDR. the 440SE is a DX7 card, the geforce 5200 is DX9. i await your rebuttle :)

edit: also, you give the 5600 WAY too much credit. it won't fare any better than the 5200 does. i think it's in the range of about 1000 pts better than the 5200, still a far cry from the Ti4200.

edit again: god damn it. Rhenna already said all that of my stuff.

[Rhenna]

I thought this was a worthwhile read:

http://tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/geforcefx-5600/index.x?pg=1

(Wish they would have tossed a GF4 Ti4600 into the mix.)

I generally lean towards Nvidia when a VIA chipset is involved, at least the pre-KT266 northbridges. I've seen some dodgey rendering with the R200 ATI cards on those platforms. But, I'd have a hard time going with these low-to-midrange GFX cards as a solution. Just my .02 on the subject.

[sushi128]

hey! a review that contradicts VR-zone's:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1387&page=3

[ReDeeMeR]

That's an interesting review, funny scores, really. You should check out http://tech-report.com/ja.zz?comments=5103, it deals with 5600FX, but it points out how freaking shitty the whole lineup is.

[sushi128]

i told u your ranking is screwed up. the 5600's are crap, cause they're as bad as 5200's but more expensive. i defend the 5200's because they're cheap.

[ReDeeMeR]

No it's not, 5600 is still abit more powerfull then 4600 when you use AA+AF the difference is quite noticeable.

Yes 5200 is cheap, but it's a downgrade from anything Geforce 4 and above and the naming is confusing people, so instead of Geforce 4 Ti 4xxx they will buy Geforce FX 5200, because it's higher, dont you see it?

As a result games will advance slower because there will be shiteload of computer illiterate with FX's 5200.

[sushi128]

well, the numbers don't stand for how powerful they are; it stands for the generation of cards, right? so they number them correct; the gefroce FX5200 is just as much a geforce FX as the 5800. and they support dx9 just like it promises; it supports the new shader functions just like it promises, and most of all, it's priced where it was promised. 100$ retail to get you the newest generation of video card (the MX420-460 was a shame, because it actually set you back a generation). the card isn't meant for you and i; it has a price to coincide. i'm certain it will play unreal 2 as ever. a person who purchases one will NOT be messing with the resolutions, and will therefore be playing at 800 x 600; even teh geforce 2 can power through the game at THAT res :)

[ReDeeMeR]

DIE :)

[ReDeeMeR]

No, really I give up lol...