Direct connect sting

[Downfall]

http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3400051

August 26, 2004
FBI Sting Targets P2P Operation
By Roy Mark


The U.S. Department of Justice has targeted a group known as the Underground Network for its first criminal investigation into intellectual property piracy over peer-to-peer (P2P) networks.

Direct Connect, P2P software developed by NeoModus, enables the network.

A Justice Department official told internetnews.com that neither NeoModus nor its technology were under investigation. Last week, a U.S. Appeals Court upheld a lower court ruling that P2P software is legal even if it can be used in an illegal manner.

Instead, the probe is focusing on a specific network of Direct Connect users that requires its more than 7,000 members to make anywhere from 1 to 100 gigabytes of media available for other members.

During a media briefing Wednesday, Attorney General John Ashcroft said "virtually every kind of software, game, movie and music was available for illegal downloading and distribution on these networks, from computer games and music that would cost as much as $18 to $35 dollars if purchased legitimately, to specialized software that has a retail cost in excess of $1,000."

Ashcroft authorized search warrants Wednesday morning involving an Internet service provider and five individuals in Texas, New York and Wisconsin. Computers, software and computer-related equipment were confiscated in the raids. No charges have been filed.

According to an FBI affidavit in support of the search warrants, the Underground Network Web site is hosted on a server located in San Antonio, Texas. The hubs on the network are located both in the U.S. and abroad. The affidavit states that the network has 55 staff positions including hub operators and moderators and network administrators.

Users access the site by downloading Direct Connect software and then connecting to the Underground Network. There is no fee to join the network and members are provided with access to a list of hub sites on the network.

Through what the FBI called "online covert operations and traditional investigative techniques," authorities said they were able to identify the leadership of the network and the organizational structure of the U.S. hubs. Five of those hubs and their operators are the subject of the DOJ investigation.

After an undercover FBI agent joined the Underground Network, he was able to download 72 gigabytes of copyright protected material from the five sites. The FBI says the material consisted of approximately 84 movies, 40 software applications, 13 games and 178 sound recordings.

Since last September, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has filed copyright infringement civil suits against almost 7,000 individuals using P2P applications on the public file-sharing sites of Kazaa, Grokster, Morpheus, eDonkey and others, but Ashcroft's Wednesday announcement marks the first criminal investigation into P2P networks.

The maximum penalty for criminal copyright infringement for a first-time offender is up to five years in prison and a fine of $250,000.

"P2P does not stand for 'Permission to Pilfer.' Illegal distribution and reproduction of copyrighted material is a serious criminal offense," Ashcroft said. "Today's investigative action sends a clear message to online thievesand those who think nothing of downloading those stolen goods to their computers and MP3 players."

Ashcroft added, "You can pay the fair value for music, movies, software and games like every other consumer, or you can pay an even higher price when you are caught committing online theft."




thoughts?

[Chimera[NL]]

Hahaha, fools. Seriously do they really think this 'raid' means anything? Come on man, this doesn't hurt the P2P community at all. The funny thing is that especially at the end of the article you see the only thing they can really do, and that is making threats. Besides the industry will never understand anyway, instead of lowering the prices of adding something special to their product they just go and squander billions and billions on making new copyright-security and techniques to ensure no one copies the product. But it's all in vain, because if you can read the product you can record it aswell, or burn it for that matter.

Bottomline is piracy will always be there. No matter what platform no matter what penalty the 'crime' has on it, it will always be there. They better get used to it, cause these actions are not helping in any way.


PS. I always get a Rebellion VS The Empire (from StarWars) kinda feeling whenever they speak about pirats and the ways 'they' want to counter them.

[MrBored]

Originally posted by Chimera[NL]
Bottomline is piracy will always be there. No matter what platform no matter what penalty the 'crime' has on it, it will always be there. They better get used to it, cause these actions are not helping in any way.

Thats very true. I believe that people who sell software should be brought down, but people who just share it aren't really the problem. I have copied stuff quite a lot, but I have always purchased software which I really liked and kept on my system. I think this holds true for a large amount of people. Most of the time, if I couldn't get hold of the software for free, I wouldn't have purchased it in the first place. Either I don't have the money or don't need it that much, so they aren't losing out in anyway.

[Chimera[NL]]

Originally posted by MrBored
Thats very true. I believe that people who sell software should be brought down, but people who just share it aren't really the problem. I have copied stuff quite a lot, but I have always purchased software which I really liked and kept on my system. I think this holds true for a large amount of people. Most of the time, if I couldn't get hold of the software for free, I wouldn't have purchased it in the first place. Either I don't have the money or don't need it that much, so they aren't losing out in anyway.

I never bought anything, except the Windows Home Edition that was on my pre-installed pc. I mean fuck them, I'm not gonna pay 60 bucks or more for a game that I'll be done with within a week. They should lower the price, and then they'll see that I'm more than happy to buy a game.

[MrBored]

Originally posted by Chimera[NL]
I never bought anything, except the Windows Home Edition that was on my pre-installed pc. I mean fuck them, I'm not gonna pay 60 bucks or more for a game that I'll be done with within a week. They should lower the price, and then they'll see that I'm more than happy to buy a game.

Games are never more than about $50 in this country cause thats exactly what would happen and has happened. Nobody bought games, the distributor went bust and we were in a dark time for gaming. Anything we wanted had to be downloaded or imported. A new distributor came along, lowered the price and sales picked up. We now get games the same time as europe so that rocks.

Some games get more than a week of play out of them, ala Kotor, Morrowind, Quake 3 etc, these games do deserve the money we pay for them cause if no one paid people wouldn't make games for free and the pc as a gaming platform would diminish until we all played on consoles ( ugh ).

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

ROFL they supposedly raided Razor 1911 group and even now there are crack with Razor 1911 slapped on them. Nothing is going to change. They should concentrate this energy in places where it really matters like making enjoyable games!

[future man]

I thought DOOM3 deserved 55 bucks, sweet Christ on a stick was I wrong. The only games I can truly justify purchasing anymore are RPGs, or mutliplayer based games that'll last me more than 20 hours.

[Rhenna]

Since Downfall asked for thoughts, here are mine.

If someone within the next several weeks comes to have, say, Half-Life 2 on their drive without paying for it, how is that any different than, at best, "receiving stolen property"? Maybe this person didn't break into a store or someone's home and steal the software itself, but it nonetheless seems like stealing to me.

I'm not saying this to be adversarial or to antagonize anyone, but if we applied the logic of "I'm not going to pay for something that I want, and fully intend to use, because it's either too expensive, or won't hold my interest over time, so I'll just otherwise 'acquire' it" to everything else we desired or needed, it would be a pretty weird world. Without a doubt, it is a different dynamic than outright theft, because technology allows the practice of, ahem, "sharing" while leaving the actual owner with the original. But a fully functional duplicate is a lost sale for the author, pure and simple.

Are games too expensive? I believe so. Should we be asked to buy something without the opportunity to at least play a demo? I say, "no." Not everyone has access to, or can afford, broadband service to download demos. If AOL can inundate all of us with their installation disks, couldn't Eidos or EA Games or Atari distribute a free "sampler" disk every so often? I'd like to think so.

But, demo disks won't happen and games prices won't fall as long as a certain percentage of game players aren't paying to play. There may be any number of reasons why, for example, Doom 3 is $55. Maybe that is what Activision thought the market would bear. Maybe Carmack has his eye on another Ferrari. I personally feel it's part of an industry-wide effort to align PC game prices with those of console games. Who knows? But, it's possible that at least some of that $55 is because those who actually buy it have to carry the weight of some who didn't buy it, and yet have it anyway. It could be argued that vALVE's "Steam" contrivance is their way of, among other things, crushing software piracy. I can't say if it's effective or not in that regard, but I'd hate to have the rest of the publishers/developers follow suit.

The only argument for this practice that has any merit in my eyes are those who say that a certain game isn't available where they live. If that's the case, it hardly seems it would be depriving the game distributor/developer of revenue if the game isn't being offered for sale in that locale to begin with.

BTW, I expect this opinion to be very much in the minority within this Forum.

[StormyPeak]

I don't do things that are illegal...to much of a hassle if caught. I have a life to live and don't want to worry about my hard earned money going to pay for court fines.

About the games. Most of the games I bought, I've bought used. Now sometimes that means I can't get updates with them because they have already been registered under someone elses name -- but then I don't play online games with others, and rarely had the need to download patches or extra scenerios and such.

The cost of a used game can be pretty cheap. I've picked up $50.00 games for about $15.00. Yeah, they are a year or more out on the market...and might already have been superceded by a newer version....but I'm patient. :cool:

If it is a game I do truely want and want immediately...I make choices. I pay $50.00 for it, and don't buy that new sweater, or I don't rent movies for a while, or do other things that are frivolous as far as spending my money.

The arguement about games being too high priced -- and so stealing it is ok is not a good arguement.

I really don't think the average car is worth what they get for them new either....but that doesn't mean I'm just going to take it for free. ;) It's not the amount of money that is the question in comparing a car to a game....it's the act of taking it without paying for it that is the point.

Stormy

[NiteX]

I agree with a lot of you here. If the game is worth the money and is a truly great game then hell yes it deserves to be bought. But, if the game is shit and I only spend about 5 to 10 hours on it, it can kiss my left nut. One of the main reasons I would buy a game is if you need a CD key for multiplayer. Most CD keys on the net never work for multiplayer. So if I really want to play the game online I will go out and buy it.

[MrBored]

The main point in my mind that makes software piracy different to stealing is that you aren't really taking anything from someone. i.e. they don't have less of the thing that you're taking, they just don't get more money. With normal theft, you are actually taking something from someone and they now have less of that particular thing. If I killed myself now and never bought another game it would have the exact same effect on the software company as me just coping every peice of software I want.

I don't pirate everything because of reasons I previously mentioned, but maybe you get my point?

[StormyPeak]

Originally posted by MrBored
The main point in my mind that makes software piracy different to stealing is that you aren't really taking anything from someone. i.e. they don't have less of the thing that you're taking, they just don't get more money. With normal theft, you are actually taking something from someone and they now have less of that particular thing. If I killed myself now and never bought another game it would have the exact same effect on the software company as me just coping every peice of software I want.

I don't pirate everything because of reasons I previously mentioned, but maybe you get my point?

Ok...so based upon what you are saying...

If you had a job, and before you could cash your paycheck...someone (besides FICA) takes some of you money.

To para-quote you: "You" just won't get more money

-- even though you worked for it.

Don't you think the folks that created those games spend a ton of hours working on them, put out the $dollars$ to market them and want to see each game bring in the money that is rightly theirs ? ? ?

Stealing is stealing -- for me it's a black and white issue. If an item is for sale...then one either purchases it or not....but to take it just isn't right in my book.

Stormy

[MrBored]

Originally posted by StormyPeak
Ok...so based upon what you are saying...

If you had a job, and before you could cash your paycheck...someone (besides FICA) takes some of you money.

To para-quote you: "You" just won't get more money

-- even though you worked for it.

Don't you think the folks that created those games spend a ton of hours working on them, put out the $dollars$ to market them and want to see each game bring in the money that is rightly theirs ? ? ?

Stealing is stealing -- for me it's a black and white issue. If an item is for sale...then one either purchases it or not....but to take it just isn't right in my book.

Stormy

Nope, you didn't understand my point and didn't read my earlier posts correctly. When I sign a contract to work with a company, I expect a certain amount as agreed upon, so if they reduce it I would be getting less money. I'm not a rampant pirater, I have well over 50 original DVD's and more games than I can count ( a fair amount of my originals were stolen though, HAH! ), I was just trying to convey a point.

[StormyPeak]

Originally posted by MrBored
Nope, you didn't understand my point and didn't read my earlier posts correctly. When I sign a contract to work with a company, I expect a certain amount as agreed upon, so if they reduce it I would be getting less money. I'm not a rampant pirater, I have well over 50 original DVD's and more games than I can count ( a fair amount of my originals were stolen though, HAH! ), I was just trying to convey a point.

But I did read your posts. :)

And, I realize you are trying to point out something for the hell of it -- that you are not a 'rampant pirater'

But I'm saying there is a huge flaw in your point.
No matter how you re-arrange the words and the arguement, you are still trying to justify stealing.

If someone owns something...they should be allowed to put whatever price tag they want on that item.

Just because some don't like that price doesn't make it ok to just take it.

All you are saying, in my opinion, is that it's ok to steal from them because the effect will only be that they 'earn less money'

This has nothing to do with how much money they already make, or whether or not the item is worth the asking price. It belongs to them until someone buys it -- and to do otherwise...by taking it is stealing.

Stormy

[MrBored]

Hows about putting it this way, its not stealing if they'll never know its missing.

[StormyPeak]

Originally posted by MrBored
Hows about putting it this way, its not stealing if they'll never know its missing.


LOL... That's like saying 'sort of pregnant' -- either one is or isn't there is no in-between.

Stealing is the same -- Either you take it or you don't. The ACT of doing it..is wrong - even if the person who was the victim of the theif doesn't find out. It's still money that they should have had in their bank account.

Nice try at trying to put another wrinkle into this conversation...lol.

I gotta get back to work...so I can let FICA steal some of my hard earned money....and yes, I call it stealing because I know I'll never get to see any of it again.... Stupid medicare will probably go bust before I get to use it.
:rolleyes

Stormy
:

[MrBored]

Originally posted by StormyPeak
It's still money that they should have had in their bank account.

Thats what I mean by not getting the point of my post.

[karny]

Originally posted by MrBored
Thats what I mean by not getting the point of my post.

Just because you would never have bought the game in the first place (money they would never have) doesn't change the fact that it's stealing, it doesn't give you any more right to have that software, it is differen't by virtue that they don't loose anything by you not buying it but it's still stealing.

[MrBored]

Thats only cause we're capitalist pigs, long live communism!

[REBEL_AU]

i pirate, and dont plan on stopping.

[Chimera[NL]]

I am a pirate and I don't plan on stopping....harrrr

[future man]

I stopped downloading music and movies, I'll just stick with what I have, I've got no interest in having my pants sued off.

[dante.hk]

Oh yeah. There are like 1023503486 people around here getting sued because they do stupid stuff like that.

[MrBored]

I never really downloaded music ( I have never downloaded a movie cause 56k > downloads...), but that doesn't stop the sharing at lans. And just remember when you're on a p2p network, what would jesus do. Simple really, share!

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

Pirating is the way to go bitches and you know it!

[REBEL_AU]

Originally posted by Chimera[NL]
I am a pirate and I don't plan on stopping....harrrr YARRRRRRRR

[Chimera[NL]]

Originally posted by future man
I stopped downloading music and movies, I'll just stick with what I have, I've got no interest in having my pants sued off.

Yeah that's the fucked up thing about the States, that one bill gives em unlimited power. Funny note btw, some of those agencies like RIAA for instance send a note to my provider saying they wanted personal information from their users, which includes me offcourse, but my provider simply said: 'Where's your warrant?" and since they didn't have one, they got the simple answer, NO!

I love my provider.

[Stonex]

how many people get shot/raped/deaded/assaulted in the US every day? And they're wasting man power on stolen intellectual property?

For the love of baby jebus. What a waste of freaking time. Oh and do they not realise that monitoring internet flow and logging IP's etc etc etc is an invasion of privacy? Ah duh.... They cant do shit really.

And valve arnt helping. I mean jesus H, downloading HL2 and then activating it using a bought key!? AHAHAHAHHAHA morons, how many millions of copies of software are they going to lose to key gens and assorted cracks? At least invent a new way of securing a CD so it cannot be copied, end of story - spend all those man hours they wasted on raids employing people to create safefdisk 3 or whatever, i dont give a shit.

In NZ a brand new game costs ~ $80 - 130 NZD. Thats a hell of a lot of money to be spending on a game with zilch replay value and a total game play time of around about 20 hours. Ohkay, the gaming community does understand how much effort goes into some games, and the majority would be more than happy to fork out a reasonable amount of money for a game.. say $50 NZD so about $20-30 US, sounds fair to me, more people will buy (simply because it isnt worth downloading 3gigs of game, even over cable) so in all reality it would even out wouldnt it? But no, people are soo obsessed with earning money. FFS! :mad: