Motherboard

[Bluu]

which is a good motherboard for a P4 2.4 or P4 3.06 or AMDAthlon XP 2800+ ?

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

AMD Processors
ASUS A7N8X
or MSI K7NGL or something like that.. check it out at msi.com.tw

for p4 3.06 or 2.4
ASUS P4PE if u want the older boards or better
a new GRANITE BAY MOBO.. w/ dual channel DDR and it will rock ur pants better than a bitch sucking on ur cock.. hehe

try reading through board reviews at

anandtech.com
tomshardware.com
xbitlabs.com
hardocp.com
overclockersclub.com (they might have older reviews)
i know more sites will post later..

[ReDeeMeR]

AMD All the way!

[Yian]

Make sure you get a good fan and a heatsink if you go AMD! Retailers like to stuff a bad ass shit on your chip if they think you're n00b...

AMD! Enjoy the speed ride! I use P4 though...

[RAY16]

AMDs don't get that hot. I'm using the Fan and HeatSink that came with my Athlon XP 2000+, and i'm having no heat problems.

[IkYiolul]

Originally posted by RAY16
AMDs don't get that hot.
LOL, do u have any experience in building comps?

[Yian]

Originally posted by IkYiolul
LOL, do u have any experience in building comps?
Matt... I have been waiting for your support of my statement for a VERY LONG time... Tell them! AMD is hot as shit!

[RAY16]

LOL, do u have any experience in building comps?


Yes, i built the one i'm using. Got all the parts, installed them. My Athlon XP 2000+ does not get that hot. The Celeron 500Mhz i had before this got hotter then my Athlon does. I'm not sure about all AMD CPU's, but mine does not get very hot. And thats saying a lot since i live in Arizona.

[ReDeeMeR]

I have alot of experience, not exactly building them all myself, but I'm tight with my retailer and yes there was a time 2-3 months when AMD had those really hot bitches, they were alot hotter then P4's, but AMD can take much more heat without getting killed!!! And there's no heat issues with the current chips and they even overclock really good, stop living the past, I could go on about how P4 is expensive and shitty just because there was Willamate in the begining???

[Yian]

Yeah, I have to agree with ReDeeMer. AMD's chips are not hot at all. In fact, There was a time I let the motherboard running while laying it flat on the table, and I put a cup of tea over that AMD chip. 10 minutes later when I came back, I saw a big chunk of ice inside the cup!

And there was another time I went to an art conference with an AthlonXP 2200 in my side pocket of my jacket. It was snowing outside and people rushed into the conference room for the heater. about 15 minutes later people started to run out, kept saying "it feels warmer outside..." Apparently my AthlonXP chip has obsorbed all the heat from the heater, and my right hand, which was holding the chip while staying in the pocket, had frostbite!

I even heard a rumor saying that an computer chip designer was dying from cancer. His last wish was to have a chip buried with him and he chosed his favorite AMD chip, since he worked for AMD. Three days later after the doctore issued his death certificate, he went back to life, jumped out of the coffin right in the middle of the funeral! He said: "Well, for all the bad chips I've designed, I was supposed to go to hell. But my AMD chip turned Hell into a cold ass place, and Satan kicked me out...!"

See...? AMD's chips can't possible be hot...

[RAY16]

Yian, that has to be the most retarded thing i've ever read. Stop being an intel fanboy.

[Yian]

I'm not a Intel fanboy...!!!:( You call that thing retarded? OMG it was a joke! Don't you like my funny stories?

And does Intel actually has any "fanboys"? I would like to see some...

[sushi128]

the new amd's have the same thermal diode as the intel P4's, making them less prone to completely frying. i don't reccommend the asus nforce 2 board; too many problems. i'd say the epox 8RDA+ is the best you can get.

i don't think the argument of "being able to take more heat" is valid anymore, simply because no chips heat up that high. i'll have to find the site that did a little test with this. both cpu's(P4 and AXP Pali) completely flaked out at around 160F.

[portzebie]

FAH yian gr3at stori3s

[sushi128]

wait a second, Yian is completely trustworthy, and he has not proven himself otherwise. i think we should give him a chance on this whole man jumpin out of grave after being dead for a long time because of the chips he produced in life thing.

[Yian]

:o OMG stop making fun at me I said it was a joke...!!!:o

[sushi128]

wtf? you LIED?????? Yian, i used to respect you (sorta), but this is just appalling. and the thing about the athlon chip in your pocket; don't tell me that was a lie too :confused:

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by Yian
Make sure you get a good fan and a heatsink if you go AMD! Retailers like to stuff a bad ass shit on your chip if they think you're n00b...

AMD! Enjoy the speed ride! I use P4 though...

AMD's bundled coolers are perfectly fine rivaling aftermarket ones they use skived fin technology... which most aftermarket ones use anyways...just use them even if u wanna overclock a tiny bit...no point though even 2000+ athlon is fast enough as it is...

[sushi128]

if you can overclock a tiny bit, then they don't rival aftermarket ones :)

aftermarket would be the SK-7's, the volcano 11's, the Xdreme's, which are superior to the retail HSF by far. but, like the man said, they wouldn't bundle a cpu that doesn't do the job, so it's safe to say the retail HSF will suit you just fine.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
if you can overclock a tiny bit, then they don't rival aftermarket ones :)

aftermarket would be the SK-7's, the volcano 11's, the Xdreme's, which are superior to the retail HSF by far. but, like the man said, they wouldn't bundle a cpu that doesn't do the job, so it's safe to say the retail HSF will suit you just fine.

well sure you can overclock on it... its just all aluminum so its just fine for anyone thats not gonna overclock... but i would reccomend definitely watercooling for overclocking anyways why not just get that instead of a noisy heatsing and not get anywhere near the performance of watercooling...

[Bluu]

AMDs are way more expensive compared to P4s here...almost a $40 difference in the cost of the 2.4 gig processors...
Should I still go for AMD?

[ReDeeMeR]

XP2400+ is 40$ more then P2,4????

[sushi128]

seems like it should be the other way around....

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND LOL...

always for most up to date prices go to pricewatch.com best site ever for cheap prices...

....then roll on over to resellerratings.com and see how that seller is with reliability...

best way to do things...or just go to your local pc parts store but u may be charged too much :mad:

[sushi128]

dude ZAND...think for a sec. he's in india. i know in europe, the difference in price between video cards IS HUGE (like the 9500np and 9500 pro).

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
dude ZAND...think for a sec. he's in india. i know in europe, the difference in price between video cards IS HUGE (like the 9500np and 9500 pro).

holy shit india eh...well then MOVE TO THE US !!!...if u speak the language lol...im not too informed on india....

u sure he doesnt mean indiana lol

[sushi128]

it's true though, prices don't get any better than they do in the US (proof: pricewatch). but the guys up north always get the great price breaks though.....

[ReDeeMeR]

Well I believe if AMD factory is near your place somewhere then the prices will be REALLY cheap like where I live, they are being made in Germany and our country is pretty close...

[Bluu]

Originally posted by sushi128
dude ZAND...think for a sec. he's in india. i know in europe, the difference in price between video cards IS HUGE (like the 9500np and 9500 pro).

thank u for ur support sushi128...
and zand i am in india and very proud of it...

and yes AMD is MORE expensive than the P4...so back to my qsn...should i still go for an AMD???

[sushi128]

no, u should go for the P4; it's a plain and simple choice for me, given your situation.

[Kawasaki]

I'd go for Epox 8rda+ or Abit NF7(-S). And Xp1700(the DLT ones) or Xp2100 as the CPU, because they overclock soooo nicely ;D

[Bluu]

thanks guys!

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by Kawasaki
I'd go for Epox 8rda+ or Abit NF7(-S). And Xp1700(the DLT ones) or Xp2100 as the CPU, because they overclock soooo nicely ;D

THE msi nforce 2 mobo is very nice also...

why not just order from a big company like newegg...i think they will ship to international places but im not sure check out the big retailers small ones for sure wont ship...

I FUCKIN LOVE MY COMBO of asus a7n8x mobo and athlon 2700+ but i think msi is supposed to be better ?!?!...

then go to resellerratings to check out if they are good ....peace out

[sushi128]

best by far is the already mentioned 8RDA+ (coincidentally cheaper than others). i've got a perosnal bias against MSI, so i won't comment on that. if you're one of those who got a perfectly good A7N8X, then you've got a nice board in your hands. sorry to say the results aren't universal.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
if you're one of those who got a perfectly good A7N8X, then you've got a nice board in your hands.

im actually only having problems in 2 areas...

1.. cant get the fsb over 191mhz for some reason...
2.. sound crackles in counter strike and raven shield every once in a while and it annoys the hell outta me...

know any fixes for either of these...im just using the skived fin aluminum stock amd cooler but have 3 case fans and good airflow and i got corsair pc2700ddr low latency platinum memory...what could be my problem sushi or anyone else ?

[RAY16]

Here is two fixes that will work:


2. Get a sound card

3. Wait for new drivers, or BIOS rev to fix the problem.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by RAY16
Here is two fixes that will work:


2. Get a sound card

3. Wait for new drivers, or BIOS rev to fix the problem.

soundstorm is the best and most complete sound chip out yet...i doubt i'll downgrade to an audigy or anything else... just read toms hardware guide on sound chips a fairly new article... u'll see

[sushi128]

u can't get over 191mhz because you've got crucial 2700 DDR. i've used it. great at stock, but i couldn't get past 183 (you must have gotten a better stick than i). invest in a nice stick of corsair or any of the like (geil, mushkin, hyperx, twinmos) and you'll get a lot further.

i'll hunt around for that soundstorm issue...

[RAY16]

I have a A7N8X non-deluxe with built in audio (Not with dolby though), and it sounds great, but it has problems. Crackling is the main problem i've heard people talk about. I myself don't get it much (thank god), but some people get it really bad. It seems to happen most when the HD reads something heavily, or when CPU usage is really high. Just wait for nVidia to release some new drivers, or wait for Asus to fix the problem.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
u can't get over 191mhz because you've got crucial 2700 DDR. i've used it. great at stock, but i couldn't get past 183 (you must have gotten a better stick than i). invest in a nice stick of corsair or any of the like (geil, mushkin, hyperx, twinmos) and you'll get a lot further.

i'll hunt around for that soundstorm issue...

CORSAIR READ MY POST CAREFULLY HAHA...
and just go to tomshardware.com and scroll down a bit u'll see the benchmark on audio chips...hehe... haha i wouldnt buy crucial if i was planning to overclock

[unskinnybob]

QUOTE: soundstorm is the best and most complete sound chip out yet...

No it isn't. Infact, all it does is to convert your VIA 5.1 (or whatever onboard soundcard your motherboard has) to digital. Audigy's, Live's and other good soundcards have different versions of EAX - which in the PC entertainment industry is the standard. As far as I know no NForce2 onboard processor is capable of EAX2 - maybe that Aureal shit or whatever it's called, but not REAL environmental audio.

And AMD doesn't run that fast - my 2K stays between 40 and 55 degrees. Compare that with an Intel 2.4Ghz up.

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by unskinnybob
QUOTE: soundstorm is the best and most complete sound chip out yet...

No it isn't. Infact, all it does is to convert your VIA 5.1 (or whatever onboard soundcard your motherboard has) to digital. Audigy's, Live's and other good soundcards have different versions of EAX - which in the PC entertainment industry is the standard. As far as I know no NForce2 onboard processor is capable of EAX2 - maybe that Aureal shit or whatever it's called, but not REAL environmental audio.

Yup, as I said that review is false, Audigy easily beats SS in anything and even game preformance and Audigy has better drivers in XP then SS. And no other cards do EAX as good as Creative, sorry Icant back this up by a link because I just dont keep them bookmarked somewhere cause I'm not a hardware nerd :p

But from "people" in various forums I know that Audigy1/2 is alot better in games/music/dvd.


Originally posted by unskinnybob
QUOTE:
And AMD doesn't run that fast - my 2K stays between 40 and 55 degrees. Compare that with an Intel 2.4Ghz up.

You mean "as hot" ;) Cause they sure as hell preform better then P4

[sushi128]

Originally posted by ZANDAMORPHIS
CORSAIR READ MY POST CAREFULLY HAHA...
and just go to tomshardware.com and scroll down a bit u'll see the benchmark on audio chips...hehe... haha i wouldnt buy crucial if i was planning to overclock

say...what?

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
say...what?

im saying i have corsair not crucial...my corsair should be able to handle any overclock speeds upto pc 2700 cuz its revision 1.1... i dont have crucial thats all im trying to say lol


and on the soundstorm...you guys keep arguing i know soundstorm is a better chip and thats all i gotta say...thg is a reliable resource for benchmarks its the whole point of the site not to cheat out audigy they wouldnt do that...the benchmarks show and im saying that if u want the best sound chip and got an amd processor...get soundstorm...uses LESS system resources then audigy...and also just check out audio winbench 99 or something that will show you who is king in depth but the game benchmarks show that audigy is not as efficient as the soundstorm nvidia is actually better at sound then gfx...lol j/j

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by unskinnybob
QUOTE: soundstorm is the best and most complete sound chip out yet...

No it isn't. Infact, all it does is to convert your VIA 5.1 (or whatever onboard soundcard your motherboard has) to digital. Audigy's, Live's and other good soundcards have different versions of EAX - which in the PC entertainment industry is the standard. As far as I know no NForce2 onboard processor is capable of EAX2 - maybe that Aureal shit or whatever it's called, but not REAL environmental audio.

And AMD doesn't run that fast - my 2K stays between 40 and 55 degrees. Compare that with an Intel 2.4Ghz up.

oh and you dumbass you sound like a real idiot first off research stuff b4 u blabber about them... it DOES SUPPORT EAX2 haha what an ass...im pround of my ss...audigy is extremely good too...i love them both its just ss is proven to be better thats all ???

[sushi128]

shit guys, this was already discussed. thought that was all said and done...

and the corsair; i've never played with the PC2700 stuff , so that could still be your problem. but since it IS corsair, then the problem is most likely your I/O devices. what does your agp/pci divider look like?

[mdruce]

Didnt you all go waaay off topic with this AMD temperature business and sound cards? Personally (in my opinion, as I build PC's almost on a daily basis) the Athlon doesn't get too hot. With one exception. I have built around 5 AthlonXP2000+ machines, and found this chip to get the hottest by at least 10 degrees EVERY time. On another note, the AMD supplied heatsink is usually adequite for most, as TomsHardware.com points out - http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030404/index.html - but for those of you who want certain things (temperature over loudness for example) then you should look into buying a seperate one. I personally would recomend one with an RPM controller, so you can pick ur ideal noise level and temperature. "why are you talking about rpm and noise in relation to heatsinks?" well, because most of the time any fancy heatsinks these days are a bizarre shape and come with a specific fan.

Back to the original post, on what mobo, i would highley recomend you AVOID either the Asus A7N8X or A7V8X. The reason I say this is because I wasted my money on both, one after the other, and was VERY disapointed with both the performance and the compatability issues of the KT400 chipset and my gfx card (radeon 9700pro). Instead, I went MSI way, the KT4V-L (you can get the KT4V if you dont want onboard lan) and was pleasently suprised! My benchmarks where up by a drastic amount, and my Radeon9700pro FINALLY saw peak performance, along with the Hyperion drivers (which would bring the A7V8X down).

Please note guys, im not say these boards are lame, end off, im just stateing my opinion!! Dont jump all over me saying stuff like "I've got one and it works fine" cause thats fair enough. I have a certain amount of backing this time, as you will see if you head over the the VIA forums and look at the post on Compatability issues with KT400 and ATI. (on 17 pages by now i think....)

Footnote: if you do get a board with onboard audio, check out http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html and think it through.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by mdruce

Dont jump all over me saying stuff like "I've got one and it works fine" cause thats fair enough. I have a certain amount of backing this time, as you will see if you head over the the VIA forums and look at the post on Compatability issues with KT400 and ATI. (on 17 pages by now i think....)

Footnote: if you do get a board with onboard audio, check out http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html and think it through.


Ive got one and it works fine jack!
Great link though...showing the audigy is romped by the soundstorm haha... and i also found out...that if you use digital output then say fuck you to the audigy, because its digital out for speakers is only 2 channel, soundstorm is the only chip that can do true dolby digital 5.1 out... now tell me what would you rather have? especially with digital speakers!!! (did anyone say z-680's lol)

[mdruce]

LOL ZANDAMORPHIS

Ive got one and it works fine jack!

you have an Asus A7N8X Delux.... which is fair enough... but SLOW.. and if you read my post again, you will see that Im meaning the issue's are with the KT400 and the ATI Radeon , sadley you have a VERY poor GeForce 4 MX....


MSI KT4V-L + GeForce4 MX 440 + AthlonXP 2200+
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 4980

MSI KT4V-L + Radeon9700pro + AthlonXP 2200+
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 12428
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Asus A7N8X + GeForce4 MX 440 + AthlonXP 2200+
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 3840

Asus A7N8X + Radeon9700pro+ AthlonXP 2200+
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 10320


So diference over MSI and Asus = 2400 3dmarks !!
diference over ATI and GeForce4 mx = 6500 3dmarks !!

[sushi128]

theonly real advantage to the nforce2 is the dual channel memory, and i'd conclude that nothing utilizes it very well yet (according to your benches). oh, and all of the reviews i've seen has the nforce2 beating the KT400 by atleast 200 points? results may vary, i guess.

and he's got the 420....64 bit SDR, PCI, lowest of the low :D (get that 9700 pro!)

and most of the enthusiast heat sinks allow you to attach whatever fan you want

[ReDeeMeR]

Well VIA has some fucking retarded issues with creative there for I will never ever go with via again and I believe nforce2 preforms significantly better then KT400-400A. As was pointed out by countless reviews and Nvidia probably couldnt bribe so many ;)

ZANDAMORPHIS

Wtf are you talking about? Audigy does full digital output.

And that guy said that SS doesnt support EAX2 "fully", because I can assure you no other then creative cards do. EAX is mostly software from what I know and creative kept the most parts of it as an exclusive, maybe when EAX HD2 comes out they will let others have full EAX2.

Oh and also SS has poorer "sound quality"

[sushi128]

sorry Zand....audigy has full dolby digital 5.1 output.

but as far as i know, there ARE a few cards out there that are EAX 2.0 compatible. don't know how official it is, but most do it by translating it to directsound calls.

Philip's Acoustic edge has this feature...

[mdruce]

I believe nforce2 preforms significantly better then KT400-400A. As was pointed out by countless reviews and Nvidia probably couldnt bribe so many

what ever ReDeeMeR...

Explain this to me then:
My PC (at time of test, now upgraded CPU):

AthlonXP2700+ / Radeon 9700pro / MSI KTV4-L
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 14182

AthlonXP2700+ / Radeon 9700pro / Asus A7N8X
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 12482

AthlonXP2700+ / Radeon 9700pro / Asus A7V8X
3DMark 2001se (b330) = 12936

And yes, I really DID fork out the money for those 3 motherboards, to get the combo right.

Notes:
WindowsXP Pro sp1, DX9.0a, Catalyst 3.2...
Hyperion 4.46 on VIA chipset boards - BUT - A7V8X unstable with Hyperion installed)
All-in-One for nForce board.. no perfomance increase really.

The ram didn't change, fresh install of xp with each board... same cpu/heatsink+fan....

So explain to me how I got those benchies? I know some places categorically say that the nForce2 board is faster than and KT400 / KT400A, so why when I bought an nForce2 board, it was MUCH slower than a stable KT400 chipset board?

Like sushi128 said, suppose they vary.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by mdruce
LOL ZANDAMORPHIS

Ive got one and it works fine jack!

you have an Asus A7N8X Delux.... which is fair enough... but SLOW.. and if you read my post again, you will see that Im meaning the issue's are with the KT400 and the [B]ATI Radeon , sadley you have a VERY poor GeForce 4 MX....


hmm...another post i explain why...and your benchmarking must be cuz u got a really shitty first version of asus mobo...dont you know dumbass that if you get the newest of the newest your most likely gonna have some type of small bug or whatever that will bottleneck your system to not score your benchmarks as high...wait for revisions unless its a must...

ohh...and...every review i ever saw on the net scored the a7n8x mobo almost 15 or more percent better in most tests...truly, if your gonna go amd recently, then go with an nforce2 mobo..

anyone who doesnt is crazy, the reviews are great, and they offer just as much features if not way more than your msi does...

...also, no matter what benchmark the asus motherboard was faster than any via chipset in the past, via should just give up they will never be as good chipset makers as intel or nvidia ... and a few select others... they did have thier glory days but cant compare to more efficient newer technology... dont feel like typin no more lata buddies

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
sorry Zand....audigy has full dolby digital 5.1 output.

but as far as i know, there ARE a few cards out there that are EAX 2.0 compatible. don't know how official it is, but most do it by translating it to directsound calls.

Philip's Acoustic edge has this feature...

man ss is eax2 fully compatible i know i read the specs on a pdf of nvidias web site...

...and i read in the new maximum pc magazine the review about the new klipsch speakers digital only you shouldnt use them in an audigy because it would be 6 speakers running 3 speaker sound cuz of audigy not having true 5.1 digital output... just check out that article dont attack me for saying what i read from some real hardware geniuses...

[sushi128]

alright, i'll read up on the soundstorm's technical brief (or white papers).

[ReDeeMeR]

mdruce

Why the hell did you install Hyperion aka "VIA KT4 ONLY" drivers on Nvidia Nforce2 ??? Maybe this explains your crappy scores.

You should use Nvidia drivers man lol :p

My rig scores 13,000 with balance settings in drivers and my rig is overall much slower then yours(But I guess not that much lol).

[ReDeeMeR]

ZANDAMORPHIS

It's not always the way they want customer to believe, for example neither Radeon9700 nor FX are "fully" DX9 compatible cards, but both come with "fully DX9" on the box...

[sushi128]

it's hard to have full Dx9 compliance, seeing how both cards were developed into Dx9 through guessing (Dx9 hadn't been released yet). to me, both cards responds properly to all Dx9 calls, and therefore fits my own definition of "full compliance".

also, i can't find anything on how the soundstorm handles EAX2 exactly. i'm sure it's the way i described previously, i.e., tranlates it into DS3D calls.

btw, as it turns out, the 9700pro is more Dx9 compliant than the FX; but it doesn't matter! cause both handle Dx9 calls appropriately, no translation.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
ZANDAMORPHIS

It's not always the way they want customer to believe, for example neither Radeon9700 nor FX are "fully" DX9 compatible cards, but both come with "fully DX9" on the box...

FUCK THE FX...lol

and yes they are compliant read what sushi said hardy har har

and sushi read that new issue of max pc to see about the audigy only being 2 channel digital output i mean i dunno but i sure believe it