What do you believe? Religion Topic!

[Digital Limit]

Where does your faith lie?

I'd guess many of you have little faith, based on some of the comments I read.

Personally, I'm agnostic.

[schnitzel_bob]

Atheist.

I wasn't raised in any religion (my parents are both lapsed catholics). I wasn't even baptised. During my mid-teens I considered whether I believed any of it, and came to the conclusion that I don't.

That said, I don't deny that there are good teachings in religion. Hence, I am reading the bible, and would like to read the Koran. I'm also planning on taking an intro world religion course next year.

Most of my friends are catholics, some of them are very catholic, but it doesn't really bother me. Sometimes, one of them will say something like "but you must believe in something" to which I usually say "yes, I believe I'll have another drink" (I wish I could claim that as my own...) They just can't grasp the concept of not believing in any higher power.

I also know people who are fervent atheists: they want everyone to stop believing in religion. To me, that's as bad as christian fundamentalists like Pat Robertson.

Basically, my philosophy is: I respect your beliefs, you respect mine.

[xenophage]

I don't believe in religion but I believe in God

[Digital Limit]

I also know people who are fervent atheists: they want everyone to stop believing in religion. To me, that's as bad as christian fundamentalists like Pat Robertson.

Basically, my philosophy is: I respect your beliefs, you respect mine.

Exactly: pushing your beliefs on someone is idiotic.

If anything we should all be more open-minded.

I don't believe in religion but I believe in God

I talk to God now and again, but he's more of an imaginary friend than a divine figure.

It's too large a leap for me to assume some omni[insertshithere] 'God' created all of this.

I mean, who created God? Already, we're stuck.

[StormyPeak]

Athiest.

My biggest pet-peeve is when a religious (usually Christian) person asks me about my beliefs, and I tell them...their first reaction is somewhere along the lines of
1. Why don't you believe in God
2. Then Explain (as if I would know) how this Universe was created.
3. God believes in you.
4. Don't you feel 'empty' inside? (I guess having a god makes one feels full)
5. Then you must believe in the devil... (really rolling my eyes at that one).

I don't ask people I barely met what their religous leanings are...and I when I find out, I don't, in a shocked manner ask them WHY they believe the way they do. I also don't try to tell them their God is just superstitious imaginations...the reverse of them telling me God is Real and Believes in me.
I also am quiet at harmony with my life, my feelings and my beliefs or lack there of. And, if I don't believe in God, then the Devil doesn't have a hell of a chance either...lol.

I also, btw, don't believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth-fairy, Angels, Elfs, or Flying Saucers.

Stormy

[Digital Limit]

I think it's fine for people to ask, even with shock and awe, why one believes in something else (or nothing else, for that matter).

As long as both parties are open-minded, it's fine.

Though, when they begin to attempt a conversion I can see legitimacy for anger.

[unskinnybob]

I believe all you atheists, americans, australians, canadians, english, scientologists and the french are going straight to hell. The only safe people are balcks - The big man still feels bad about how your hair came out.


The rest of you, see you there. I'll be waiting.

[SuperDavidGT]

jesus loves you, but i think you're a cunt

EDIT: jokes aside, I am agnostic. at least that way if rapture does happen it would be easier for me to cover my ass - "I never denied it!"

[tisl]

Atheist. And I wasn't really raised with a religion. My mother is a greedy whore and my father is a liar. I have an obsession with the four horsemen, but that's about it. I also think people who actually believe that the magical shit they read in the bible/koran/torah actually happened are stupid fuckers and I tend to ignore their opinions on everything.

[Digital Limit]

Given most of us do nothing religion-wise, what would everyone choose for their religion of they had to choose?

I'd be a jew. There's some great comedy, there. That, and Jesus is obviously not the son of God.

*jumps in an oven*

[Silence]

atheist! my grandmas all religious with her fancy church thingy and bible bookie, buut i showed them. i like the hat that jews get!

[wmgreer]

I'm a Baptist. Haven't been to church in like three years. I may ask people what religion they are and if they believe in God or not. But that's as far as the questions go. Personally I don't think you need to go to church to be "close to" or "talk to" God. I mean He's supposed to hear you wherever you are, whether at church, in the bathroom, or outside cutting grass, right?

[StormyPeak]

Given most of us do nothing religion-wise, what would everyone choose for their religion of they had to choose?

Probably a Druid...or some other type of religion that worships Mother Nature.

Stormy

[wmgreer]

[QUOTE=Digital Limit]Given most of us do nothing religion-wise, what would everyone choose for their religion of they had to choose?QUOTE]

Does witchcraft count? lol!!

[schnitzel_bob]

Given most of us do nothing religion-wise, what would everyone choose for their religion of they had to choose?

Does heathen count? 'Cause some of my friends call me the tattooed heathen (which is true, I suppose).

[TopSecretBoy]

Atheist.

I wasn't raised in any religion (my parents are both lapsed catholics). I wasn't even baptised. During my mid-teens I considered whether I believed any of it, and came to the conclusion that I don't.

That said, I don't deny that there are good teachings in religion. Hence, I am reading the bible, and would like to read the Koran. I'm also planning on taking an intro world religion course next year.

Most of my friends are catholics, some of them are very catholic, but it doesn't really bother me. Sometimes, one of them will say something like "but you must believe in something" to which I usually say "yes, I believe I'll have another drink" (I wish I could claim that as my own...) They just can't grasp the concept of not believing in any higher power.

I also know people who are fervent atheists: they want everyone to stop believing in religion. To me, that's as bad as christian fundamentalists like Pat Robertson.

Basically, my philosophy is: I respect your beliefs, you respect mine.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I'm really agnostic not athiest, I'd still go to church or something if some random friend invited me. Just to hang out or whatever.

[unskinnybob]

Probably a Druid...or some other type of religion that worships Mother Nature.

Stormy
They're called pagans, you dumbshit.

[StormyPeak]

They're called pagans, you dumbshit.

Heathens and pagens....are terms that were given to non-Christian groups by Jews and Christians, and I refuse to use their labels.

Polytheistic is actually the correct term for people who worship multiple gods.
Since Druids worshiped tree gods, river gods and other things pertaining to Mother Nature they are polytheistic. And Muslims, Jews, and Christians who worship one god are monotheistic

Get your ALL your facts straight before you start calling people dumbass, you dumbass.

Stormy

[bobbysandhu]

"Religion is the opium for masses"

...and i see no reason why it is not. But even then, i do believe in one supernatural force which guides us all, even if its an inert one. Its not good to be alone after all.

[tisl]

Get your ALL your facts straight before you start calling people dumbass, you dumbass.
He didn't call you a dumbass, he called you a dumbshit.

[Odm]

I respect your beliefs, you respect mine.Very true.

I'm as agnostic as it gets. This is me, discussing religion: "Yeah, there might be a god. Shit, I dunno. There could be something. Like, an impersonal god, not the Christian-style one. Damned if I know. Well, not really, since there'd have to be someone damning me. Fuckit, I don't actually care!"

But there are good aspects of each religion, and I'll probably do what schnitzel's doing and read a few religious texts, and basically live my life as I see fit. If I had to choose a religion, I'd have to look more closely but probably Buddhism. From what I can tell, it's a good ideology to structure your life around (becoming vegetarian might be hard though.)

Ironically, I call all my (infinitely more religious) friends heathens and infidels. I'd call them pagans, but one of my friends is actually pagan.

Ed- Google's ads can be pretty funny. Like the ones that it displays for the babe thread. Currently it's displaying "Religion Run Amok"

[unskinnybob]

Get your ALL your facts straight before you start calling people dumbass, you dumbass.
Stormy

I called you a dumbshit, dyke.

You dancing around naked worshipping mother nature - In my mental image I see trees uprooting themselves, trying desperatley to set themselves alight. But then I have a vivid imagination and I picture you as an old ugly fat fuck whose vibrator grew legs so it could run away. There's the imagination again.

[King Speedy]

As I posted on the main page a while ago...


I was born and raised Jewish, yet I'm confident there is no supreme being in this world. Still, I attend services, participate in the holidays, and such because I feel that my religion makes up a large part of my heritage and culture. I worked my ass off for my Bar-Mitzvah a few years ago, the entire time not believing that God exists, and I felt no qualms about it. Honestly, I think this is a viewpoint more people should take, as it promotes culture as opposed to ideology.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

Islam.

[Vlad]

I don't believe in any religiously related matter. But I respect other people's beliefs. If they want to believe in the tooth fairy, there really is no harm in that. I will even discuss the tooth fairy with them, ask them what they think it looks like, where it lives etc.

It's all in the head. As long as it stays there, believe what you want.

[REBEL_AU]

I find the concept of a god quite ignorant but if someone wants to believe I don't care as long as they don't inflict their opinions on me.

[unskinnybob]

A question to all the non-God believers (Agnostics need not answer -no opinion, no say).

Where do you suggest the shit around you came from?

[StormyPeak]

A question to all the non-God believers (Agnostics need not answer -no opinion, no say).

Where do you suggest the shit around you came from?

It's the same answer that most 'god' believers give.... That it was always here.

This was listed as one of the things that usually get asked to me by Christians. They are totally comfortable with the idea that God was always was around...and no one 'created' him.....yet can't grasp the concept that for non-believers, we accept a universe that was always here....that nothing created it.

To take that a step further on a personal level. I always ask...What if there is no such thing as "NOTHING"....that the idea of "nothing" is a human concept??? That there's always been "Something" as far as the atoms, molecules, etc...that make up the universe.

Why does the question always be that 'something' had to create something from nothing? ? ?

I tend to think that Everything has been here and always was...that the 'state of nothing' never existed.

Stormy

[unskinnybob]

I always ask...What if there is no such thing as "NOTHING"....that the idea of "nothing" is a human concept??? That there's always been "Something" as far as the atoms, molecules, etc...that make up the universe.
Ever hear of a vacuum? It consists of a shitload of NOTHING.

Our universe wasn't around forever - fact.

[karny]

It's a fact only based on our limited knowledge of the universe. It's a good theory (at the moment) but there could be many reasons why it 'seems' our universe came from aparently nothing and exploded into something.

Ultimatly it's a fucking pointless argument, i seriously don't know why people have it. I think it has something to do with the human race being stuipd... FACT.

[StormyPeak]

Ever hear of a vacuum? It consists of a shitload of NOTHING.

Our universe wasn't around forever - fact.

Even in a vacumn there can be quantum particles floating around. All a vacumn is, is lack of air or gas.

But, I think this is getting off the course of discussion here....which is suppose to be about religion. I've already mentioned I can't explain where/how things came from, but I also don't firmly believe in some man-made-up fairy tale about it either. Science at least prove some things, but proving that there is a god or gods is impossible....that is why they call it faith.

Stormy

[SuperDavidGT]

or we could all just convert to scientology. All hail xenu! xenu for the win, motherfuckers!

[unskinnybob]

I've already mentioned I can't explain where/how things came from, but I also don't firmly believe in some man-made-up fairy tale about it either. Science at least prove some things, but proving that there is a god or gods is impossible....
Stormy

So you are content living life like a fucking gold fish. Swimming side to side, not caring about where the fishbowl came from or what lies beyond.

The universe wasn't always here. Earth didn't always exist. Mankind hasn't even been around for the duration of earth's existance. Religion/belief/faith offer at least a possibility on the origins of this realm/dimension/universe. Argueing or trying to proove the validity of anyone's theories is pointless of course. But not caring/being interested/having a point of view?

[RacerX]

I wouldn't push my beliefs on anyone. I do believe that God created the universe and that Jesus is His son. I'm not religious, although my parents raised me in "the church." I believe in the Bible as teachings from God that were recorded by his followers.

One of the biggest ideas that I dissent on with most people, that believe in God, is how "we are created in his image." I think that with the symbolism of the Bible, this means more than just appearance. We are different from every other animal on Earth. I think being created in his image means having the power of reason, self awareness, logic, passion, and all the other emotions and attributes that make humans different from the rest of the animals.

I just don't believe all that this Universe is, just happened. From shit to Shania, all of it looks to me to be created by an intelligent being. Well, maybe the Shania part is an aberration from intelligent design.

Now, I know a lot of people don't want to believe in any religion or in God just cause they're lazy and don't want to hold themselves to moral standards. I respect that, it's your decision.

or we could all just convert to scientology. All hail xenu! xenu for the win, motherfuckers!
It's good enough for Ashton and Tommy boy.

[Digital Limit]

Now, I know a lot of people don't want to believe in any religion or in God just cause they're lazy and don't want to hold themselves to moral standards. I respect that, it's your decision.

That's exactly why I don't bother. Spot on, captain.

[schnitzel_bob]

Now, I know a lot of people don't want to believe in any religion or in God just cause they're lazy and don't want to hold themselves to moral standards. I respect that, it's your decision.

No, that's not why. Part of my aversion to religion is the overwhelming hypocrisy of it, ie. You'll believe in Christ's teachings of love and tolerance or I'll kill you!
How many people can honestly claim that they follow their religion's teachings to the letter? No one.
You can claim moral standards if you want, but to think that only religious people have moral standards is foolish.

Besides, the structure of organised religion is a bunch of bullshit anyways.

[SuperDavidGT]

Well, if religion is such a sweet explanation for why the universe exists, then how the fuck do you explain how "God created himself from nothing."

[StormyPeak]

So you are content living life like a fucking gold fish. Swimming side to side, not caring about where the fishbowl came from or what lies beyond.

The universe wasn't always here. Earth didn't always exist. Mankind hasn't even been around for the duration of earth's existance. Religion/belief/faith offer at least a possibility on the origins of this realm/dimension/universe. Argueing or trying to proove the validity of anyone's theories is pointless of course. But not caring/being interested/having a point of view?

Where in any of the stuff I typed, did I state I didn't care, or wish to know how this universe works? All I did was state was that I couldn't understand people who can believe in a god that Always existed...but can't believe in a Universe that Always existed.

It might not have existed in the same shape and form that we know today....and perhaps the same atoms have been creating and recreating universes over and over again - I don t' know but I'm not as mentioned, going to make up stories and say that it's a fact. Too many religions have existed upon this earth, and each had believers that KNEW their version of creation was the Correct one....and it's bullshit. They don't Know...they Believe...and there is a huge difference between the two. Many of these religions don't even exist anymore...such as the thousands of years and millions of people who worshiped Egyptian gods, and later Greek/Roman gods. They would be horrified that their beloved Hercules was nothing but a Disney cartoon....to them he was akin to the Christian's Jesus...someone worshiped and respected. In several thousand years... I wonder if some culture will be doing the same with the Christian religion...looking at it in the same way we now look at the Roman Gods, or the Egyptian ones....something quaint.

I also want to say that I could be wrong... it could be there is a God. All I'm saying is I don't know...but I'll take science over religion any day, because at least science pursues knowledge and can and has in the past corrected things it got wrong. Religion can't change because they have theirselves locked into their creation beliefs, and to change their story of it means undermining the faith.

As for what lies beyond.... If you mean beyond death... I know, that our atoms go back into a simpler state...breakdown to be recycled into something different. I don't believe in a heaven or hell....just continuance...maybe not as a human, but the atoms that make me, will be here long after my body is gone...and those atoms will scatter and become a part of other things. That's a fact...not a belief. Other than that, I would love to think there is a wonderful afterlife that my spirit, if I have one, can enjoy....it's nice to think about, but I don't believe in it - but it still would be nice.

Stormy

[SuperDavidGT]

Fuck this, I'm converting to Buddhism. At least they don't pretend they know this shit.

[Striker]

I'm an atheist, hoorah. I don't personally believe in any form of higher power, and find the concept of a magical being creating the universe and dissappearing somewhat humorous. I try to keep my beliefs to myself, however, and let people around me believe what they choose to believe. If they want to believe in God, be my guest, I just hope they don't try to spread it to me, and in turn, I will try not to spread my views to them.

[schnitzel_bob]

No! You should all convert to my religion: Triptianity.

No charisma? No social skills? No brain? No problem! With Triptianity, no thought is needed!

Consider if you will the Uros' prayer:

Our 2lions who art in Serbia
Halo-ed be thy name
Thy Smapdey come
Thy will be done on the forums as it is on the homepage
Give us this day our daily babe
And forgive not WGARA, as he is a fool
And lead us not into temptation, for we are already there
For thine is the mornin' post, and the comics, and the power to ban, for ever and ever.
Amen

[RacerX]

No, that's not why. Part of my aversion to religion is the overwhelming hypocrisy of it, ie. You'll believe in Christ's teachings of love and tolerance or I'll kill you!
How many people can honestly claim that they follow their religion's teachings to the letter? No one.
You can claim moral standards if you want, but to think that only religious people have moral standards is foolish.

Besides, the structure of organised religion is a bunch of bullshit anyways.
I agree and you have your reasons. I never said that religious people were the only ones with morals or that non-religious people have no morals. I see the same hypocrisy as you do with religion. However, several of my friends are atheists and they admit it's simply because they don't want to have to follow any higher moral standards than what society requires.

Not believing in God doesn't mean that you automatically are evil and do bad things. And there are plenty of people that claim to follow a religion that are complete assholes and have hardly any morals. Usually, following a religion requires effort and time - reading/learning the doctrine, going to church, or serving in that ministry. My friends that are atheists were raised Catholic and they just don't want to bother with all the obligations of following that faith.

[Striker]

Consider if you will the Uros' prayer:

Our 2lions who art in Serbia
Halo-ed be thy name
Thy Smapdey come
Thy will be done on the forums as it is on the homepage
Give us this day our daily babe
And forgive not WGARA, as he is a fool
And lead us not into temptation, for we are already there
For thine is the mornin' post, and the comics, and the power to ban, for ever and ever.
Amen
:D

[Digital Limit]

Nice work schnitzel_bob: I enjoyed that very much :)

[Downfall]

non practicing Roman catholic

[RADiator]

I was baptized under Eastern Orthodox Church. But above all things I believe in myself.
However I have deep respect for religion, be it Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism it is still my history, our history. Not to be neglected.

[RAY16]

I worship the great Queen Spider.

[Silence]

I worship the great Queen Spider.
the red one or the green one with mean black stripes?? the red ones a real bitch tho.

i havent even been baptized. and not religious at all, one girl left me because of that :D(because she sayd we cant get married correctly and she wants a nice wedding, MARRIED? we went out for like 2 months! GOD!)

what about the church of lawl?

[SuperDavidGT]

what about the church of lawl?

I'd subscribe to that.

[Flying Pineapple]

Thy will be done on the forums as it is on the homepage
Hahaha.. good stuff!

I wasn't going to bother replying but whatever, I was raised by Christian parents and eventually realised there was no point going to church and sunday school so I stopped all of that. Then after High School I became curious about the whole purposeful existence thing that Christianity boasts of so I started going back to that church and got involved in a bible study group and such. Eventually I concluded that I can't keep believing in Christianity because I simply don't buy it anymore. And so I consider myself as agnostic, with the same old question to ponder yet with no answer, as I don't believe the answer Christianity provides is reliable for so many reasons.

I remain close friends with my Christian friends, can't see any reason why that should change although conversation can be slightly awkward at times.

[Vlad]

Religion is good for a laugh. I love listening to my religious friends trying to convert me. It's so funny seeing them believe everything they have been spoon fed.

And when jehova's witnesses or mormons come to my door, I let them in, give them milk and cookies, and engage them in deep conversation. I often laugh out loud too, but they keep at it.

It's a great way to relieve stress. The dumber they are, the longer they sit there converting me while I laugh in their face.

A love religious dumbasses.

[Elitez Psycho]

Hmm... Just wondering if there's anyone that's actually Buddhist here? To me Buddhists seem to be in short supply lol. Or they just don't usually go on online forums. FYI I am Buddhist and I think it's got a pretty good way of looking at life. Makes sense for me anyways, karma, reincarnation and all the rest of that jazz. What I like about Buddhism best though is that it doesn't force their religion on other people. They give you the facts and beliefs of the religion and let you decide for yourself. Christianity pisses me off majorly because they're all like "INFIDEL YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!!" (Infidel means nonbeliever btw), hypocrisy as well. ie. "Yeah we're all about love and tolerance, but we're gonna head over to the Middle East and kill all them motherfucking infidel muslims" Does that make any sense at all?!?!?!? What a bunch of bullshit (This was the Crusades). Anyways yeah, if you want more info on Buddhism post ur question on the forum or msg me or something.

[Silence]

what the hell is up with religious people anyway, its like they read de freakin bible and believe in god and shit, all men are created equal stuff? meaning there should be no bullshit there?? and then people go off with their BIBLES screaming "your gay and it means YOUR EVIL" or shit like that . fuckers... i also see buddhism as the only religion i would join.

[Elitez Psycho]

what the hell is up with religious people anyway, its like they read de freakin bible and believe in god and shit, all men are created equal stuff? meaning there should be no bullshit there?? and then people go off with their BIBLES screaming "your gay and it means YOUR EVIL" or shit like that . fuckers... i also see buddhism as the only religion i would join.

Damn straight man... Christianity is so damn hypocritcal, I'm not sure about Islam or other religions. Horray for Buddhism!!! lol

Out of curiosity... Why do you guys find Buddhism attractive? Principles/ideals? Beliefs?

[SuperDavidGT]

I like buddhism. I don't follow it, but I like it. If I was going to get spiritual, that's where I'd be.

Why?

1) Because buddhists don't browbeat people into conforming with them, nor do they exploit their religion to generate revenue.

2) They don't bias everything based on their beliefs, and maintain an objective stance.

3) They dont worship anyone, especially not some prick who sent his son out into the world just to die for some apes.

4) The most violent thing a buddhist has done in recent history is set himself alight during a peace protest. Very disturbing, but at least they didn't bomb the shit out of another country or fly planes into buildings.

5) They know kung-fu.

6) And they showed me.

7) They aren't mysoginistic, angsty desert dwellers who have to take it out on the other two big religions just because their insane, extremist leader told them to "Jihad".

8) They aren't ignorant, spoon fed, helpless fast-food junkies who base their life - to the letter - on a book that was written 2,000 years ago by a couple of guys who got really bored and decided to fuck up mankind.

9) They don't circumsize their kids. Seriously, how can someone put up with a mushroom 24/7? I can't even deal with one for five minutes!

10) They don't have an agenda over oil or sand. All the christians want is oil, all the jews want is a patch of sand and all the arab (extremists) want is the world. What do the Buddhists want? Some peace and fucking quiet.

[Flying Pineapple]

what the hell is up with religious people anyway, its like they read de freakin bible and believe in god and shit, all men are created equal stuff? meaning there should be no bullshit there?? and then people go off with their BIBLES screaming "your gay and it means YOUR EVIL" or shit like that . fuckers... i also see buddhism as the only religion i would join.
Part of Christianity is the acceptance that we aren't going to do the right thing all the time because we are slaves to sin no matter what; meaning hypocrisy is expected, understood and forgiven by God as long as you have faith in Jesus and all of that. However the thing that gets me is how too many Christians and Catholics don't even seem to TRY.

Just like you said, many religious people go through each day with little to no respect for unbelievers. Then they go home and thank God that they have been saved and pray for God to show mercy to the unbelievers. I know a bunch of Christians who aren't like this - they don't cause trouble. However their kind is few...

[schnitzel_bob]

Abour buddhism, I quote Jack Nicolson from the movie Anger Managment:
"Where does a guy who weighs three hundred pounds get off telling people about self control?" :D

Seriously, though, I have looked at Buddhism, and it certainly has it's appeal, but I don't believe in a creator of any form, so Atheism is the way for me.

"I'm not an Atheist. How can you not believe in something that doesn't exist?"
-A. Whitney Brown

[Elitez Psycho]

Just to clear up somethings about Buddhism.

1. We don't have a creator, we have a "creation" theory, but it is really complicated and insanely deep. I still havn't really got it yet. lol

2. We do worship. We worship Buddhas and Buddhisattvas and Arhats (there are quite numerous levels you can get to from practicing the religion though it takes an insane amount of time or lifetimes for that matter)

3. We don't really generate revenue, but we do ask people to donate to help build temples and to help themselves (karma) by donating.

3. The Kung Fu part is the Shoalin monks of China. I'm not sure exactly why they learned Kung Fu, I think it helps with meditation or something.

4. We do base our life on laws and principles. The five basic principles are : 1) no killing 2) no stealing 3) no intoxicants of any kind 4) no lying 5) no sexual misconduct (in other words no sex before marriage) but for these rules you don't have to follow them to become a Buddhist. It's for people that have decided to become more devoted. Additionally these principles are supposed to help you keep your karma clean and so on. I'll explain more if anyone asks for clarification.

5. As for basing on life on a book that's written over two thousand years ago, no. But we do have a lot of books, Sutras is what we call them. Sutras are the teachings of the Buddha and his explanation of how the world works, what's in hell, whats in heaven, how to reach Nirvana and everything you can think of. That part of Buddhism I still havn't quite understood yet.

6. Oh yeah, for Buddhism, life is fair. Eye for and eye, tooth for a tooh fair. Repentance helps, but you will still be punished. For example, if you were a butcher and didn't know about the karma that will come with all the killing, next life and the next, you will be killed by all those who you have killed. If you repend however, they might forgive you. But repenting has to sincere and if you make the mistake of killing again you will get horribly owned, by both the ones you have killed and in Hell.

7. Yes we have a hell and a heaven, but they're not eternal. Heaven lasts for a while, good enjoyment, but once your good karma runs out you have to reincarnate back in the world. This is true for Hell as well. By the way, for both antipodes there are different levels. Lowest level for Hell is the 18th, and believe me, life is shitty there.

Enough about the Buddhist lesson. This is a drop out of an ocean of information about Buddhism. lol

[SuperDavidGT]

Actually, I'm glad I read that, there was a lot I didn't realise.

But yeah, I wasn't being totally serious in my post. Except for the bagging of extremist muslims/christians. Seriously, what is there deal?

[alas alackaday]

Then they go home and thank God that they have been saved and pray for God to show mercy to the unbelievers. I know a bunch of Christians who aren't like this - they don't cause trouble.

People don't need an excuse to be jerks, they just need a religion to look down from

[Vulgar]

I'm a christian and i believe in all that results from that but i'm not about to shove it in everybodies face. I laughed at the crazy guy shouting at us on the high street. But i read theBible and found peace with what it said. I'm not perfect and i break the "rules" all the time, not on purpose but because i'm a weak person, because its the easy option.

I get really annoyed at the tele-evangelists and the guys that lecture on the street because everybody is in a different position in life and just shouting at them isn't going to help. Actually getting to know them is much more beneficial and just being a good example will teach them far more than just throwing your faith in their face.

Anyway flame away.

[SuperDavidGT]

Oh no, I won't flame you, I liked your post. But I dont understand how anybody could just say "I'm a weak person, I deal with it" and still feel so peaceful. One thing I don't like about religion is the way that the religious give themselves so selflessly to God, and don't stop to think about themselves.

Faith is great and all, but how the hell do you know this isn't it? How do you know Heaven and Hell are not just analogies for euphoria and depression?

The way I see it, this is my life, this is my only life, and I'll make the absolute most of it.

[farsimon]

here's how religion starts:

take a community of grown up people with blank minds.

1. They learn how to survive
2. They learn how to communicate
3. Somebody takes some other guys food and they get pissed off
4. They decide that it is wrong and make rules (the law)
4. The rules get ignored and they devise punishment
5. Punishment gets ignored and the death penalty arise
6. The death penalty does not deter the criminals and they think of some "after" death penalty that will make you suffer for eternity.


Religion is a way to control the masses. The trick is just to make it so subtle that they actually feel guilty for not believing.

[alas alackaday]

Shudnt that mean that atheists should just generally be more eager to break the rules?
Oh shit, i know an atheist guy. does this mean he will kill me in my sleep because he doesn't fear a bad (insert term for whaterever happens after life)?

[alas alackaday]

point is religion doesn't stop me being a jerk

[Digital Limit]

You're very coherent.

[SuperDavidGT]

Religion is a lazy explanation for science. Exhibit A: Scientology

[farsimon]

Shudnt that mean that atheists should just generally be more eager to break the rules?
Oh shit, i know an atheist guy. does this mean he will kill me in my sleep because he doesn't fear a bad (insert term for whaterever happens after life)?
Saying that is just retarded. If religion worked then no one would be having this conversation, would we?

[alas alackaday]

1)If religion hasn't worked for its true purpose then why is is it still here?
I mean, if religion originally failed its 'true purpose' then why would those in charge still condone it? if you carry out a failed experiment, it doesn't make sense to continue it when it drains on resources.
2)The bible would be a better crime deterent if people just used it to bash others on the head because not only does it 'waste' about 500 pages before you get to the main point, the whole hell thing (after which many readers will be bored and bugger off anyway), but genuinly bad people would have merely looked at the kindness in religion as a validation for theit crimes so that others should forgive them.
3)The fact that you seem to believe it only has one purpose seems kind of stupid because religion has acheived so much, like inspire the crusades and help people get on with their lives.

[farsimon]

1)If religion hasn't worked for its true purpose then why is is it still here?
I mean, if religion originally failed its 'true purpose' then why would those in charge still condone it? if you carry out a failed experiment, it doesn't make sense to continue it when it drains on resources.
2)The bible would be a better crime deterent if people just used it to bash others on the head because not only does it 'waste' about 500 pages before you get to the main point, the whole hell thing (after which many readers will be bored and bugger off anyway), but genuinly bad people would have merely looked at the kindness in religion as a validation for theit crimes so that others should forgive them.
3)The fact that you seem to believe it only has one purpose seems kind of stupid because religion has acheived so much, like inspire the crusades and help people get on with their lives.

1) You can say that about a LOT of shit that is still around and would not go away, like the beatles for instance, but the majority of people on earth are mindless sheep drones that like to mass around and get told what to do because they have no initiative to do good out of their own volition.
2) "so that others would forgive them" - yeah that's the whole point of religion - and that's where it started, but it didn't work, hence eternal hell...
3) lol - the crusades was pointless, and, yes - religion did help a lot of people to fool themselves into ignore their own problems without feeling worthless for not being able to sort it out themselves.

[SuperDavidGT]

I'm getting out of this one, it's turning from a discussion into an attack on personal beliefs.

Farsimon, chill. Alas, chill.

To each his own, etc.

[farsimon]

point is religion doesn't stop me being a jerk
good point

[Yian]

I see potential on this topic. So far no serious flaming has been done and no one has gotten really personal. I say stay here for a while. Just be sure that you don't come in a drop a few points each time and leave. Thoroughly explain yourself when you say something so no one here is shouting at the walls.

About religion's purpose, a point has been made that if it hasn't worked out, why it is still around? Well, farsimon said it can be applied to many things, and I agree. Smoking and drinking has been around for almost as long as civilization.

A common mistake people make when engaging this type of conversation is that pro-religion people tend to list the positive things about religion and repeatedly using them to defend the idea, while con side do the opposite. A good way to approach it would be goin a step further than listing the good and the bad things, and...

1) Examine the credibility of each claim. Is the idea realistic, or is it an one-sided view? Is it proven?

2) What are the consequences of it? Is it worth it? What type of moral theory do you apply to it and why?

3) Is it necessary related to religion? Or is it a by-product of certain agenda that uses religion as a tool? How easy is it exploited, and where does the slippery slope end?

And one more thing, phrases such as "point is religion doesn't stop me being a jerk" is neither informative nor constructive, and its implication could never be clearly defined. Such statement really doesn't make any contribution to the thread or the forum... sorry to sound like an ass but I just don't wan to see a thread worthy of great discussion getting ruined by mud-tosser who wants nothing more than attention.

Cheer up guys, prove that we the Actiontripper are up to a good talk about a serious topic. show your quality!

[StormyPeak]

Why is religion still around?

It's still around because of one simple thing...which explains a lot of other things to...

Brainwashing children.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing....it's how children learn to function in what ever society they live in. But, theoritically, you could take the same exact baby, raise it in different cultures...and in one he might be a devote Catholic, and in another a devote Hindoo....and in yet another would have the potential to be a devote Muslim. This is just due to brainwashing or constant bombardment of ideals towards the child while it can be influened.

This is also why people in Spain think it's ok to torture bulls to death in an arena, while most of the rest of civilized society call it animal cruelity. Those believing that it's ok...have been brainwashed since childhood to believe it...and given excuses to defend it. (It's part of our culture...). While everyone else who's culture has grown up, grown past the need for blood sport sees it as plain and simple animal torture.

Sometimes, of course the brainwashing doesn't take effect...and that why people do switch religions, or like me, become athiest, or I'm sure, like in Spain there are Spanish there who do protest bullfighting. This is how societies get changed....someone thinks differently from the rest and convinces others. Sometimes though...the persons doing the social change aren't really doing it for the best...Stalin and Hitler being good examples.

Religion serves a purpose of controlling the masses here...allows for a few to 'run the show', have the power which churches can do to get rich and dictate their rules down to their followers (such as the Vatican, or the Morman Temple in Salt Lake, or even someone like leader of the Moonies' Unification Church and their all controlling leader Sun Young Moon)

But, on a more personal level, I think most humans feel a need to believe that they are not just a dust mote in a huge universe...and having a belief that they are here for some planned reason gives them motivation to go on when life gets hard...and something to shout their joy to when things go good (Hallelujah Jesus!).

And that's why I think religion is still around. A lot of religions have come and gone...Christianity is 2000 years old, but still has another thousand years or so to go before it is gets worshiped for as long as the civilizations of ancient Egypt worshiped their gods in the Nile valley...and even the Greek/Romans worshiped their Titan and Olympian gods. It's hard for people to think that 'their' religion will become obsolete...but it happens... I'm sure the followers of those religions and others like the Aztecs, or the followers of Baal, would never have believed their religion's could die away.

Something else will come along, and replace what most people follow today...hopefully it will be religions that further the promotion of good will towards others and respect for our planet and the creatures living on it.

Stormy

[alas alackaday]

Don't want this to get too serious so ill jst say a few things on the subject then thats it
Farsimon- didnt really get the second point
"so that others would forgive them" - yeah that's the whole point of religion
Thought the point was that it was solely a deterent? At least that was what i was against becuase religion does so much more, both good and bad.
Anyway my 3rd point was actually meant to be a v. bad joke. Notice the term 'inspire the crusades'

I'm getting out of this one, it's turning from a discussion into an attack on personal beliefs.


Didn't mean to attack anyones personal beliefs. I apologise for any hurtful comments apart from those i meant.

yian- i was trying to lighten up the mood but i guess that didnt work plus i recon i'd better insult myself before someone did it for me. It also added to my post count which is nice. On the subject of smoking and drinking, the point of those are basically to make the user feel better and on the whole a job well done.

Stormy, jst got round to reading your post. Well put.

[SuperDavidGT]

Didn't mean to attack anyones personal beliefs. I apologise for any hurtful comments apart from those i meant.


You've got me wrong mate, I was pre-empting possible nastiness. I don't exactly have beliefs to be offended. No harm on your part. :)

[Downfall]

fuck you all

its his noodly goodness that reigns suprmes!

[xenophage]

fuck you all

its his noodly goodness that reigns suprmes!

Drugs are bad mmmmkay?

[Downfall]

http://www.mirandala.org/images/noodle.jpg

[alas alackaday]

You've just been dying for a chance to use that pic haven't you?

[Downfall]

yes

yes i have

[Digital Limit]

http://www.mirandala.org/images/noodle.jpg

Why isn't that taught in Science class? It's a legitimate answer for all things.

[Yian]

Something else will come along, and replace what most people follow today...hopefully it will be religions that further the promotion of good will towards others and respect for our planet and the creatures living on it.
Well, most large organization in the world shares that similar premise already... the ultimate good is always their ultimate goal, it's just that their process is neither common nor good. The problem is not the agenda they advertise. People who call themselves "believers" alway think they are doing the right thing, except that they are merely being used as tools to accomplish something else without knowing it.

The problem, as you said, is the controlling of the mass, and that rpoblem will not disappear until one day the mass is no longer controlled. However, by our design, I believe that the mass WANTS to be controlled. The best example would be the female romantism. Through social and economic means, the mass are supress into the belief that folling certain doctrines they would be able to abtain their status and wealth without much thinking on their part.

I have always believed that the few on the top have formed an inner circle that deploys fear, anger, and humanity's laziness to form the great political machine to ensure the survivl of none others bu the elites themselves. christianity began with the idea of individual enlightment given by the devione power, which was a revolutionary step in the history of religion because it throws personal desire out of the equation. Too bad the Catholoc Church never emphasized that aspect, but instead make God look like some entity similar to Osiris from Egpytian mythology. What a real shame.

[farsimon]

Don't want this to get too serious so ill jst say a few things on the subject then thats it
Farsimon- didnt really get the second point
"so that others would forgive them" - yeah that's the whole point of religion
Thought the point was that it was solely a deterent? At least that was what i was against becuase religion does so much more, both good and bad.
Anyway my 3rd point was actually meant to be a v. bad joke. Notice the term 'inspire the crusades'



Didn't mean to attack anyones personal beliefs. I apologise for any hurtful comments apart from those i meant.

yian- i was trying to lighten up the mood but i guess that didnt work plus i recon i'd better insult myself before someone did it for me. It also added to my post count which is nice. On the subject of smoking and drinking, the point of those are basically to make the user feel better and on the whole a job well done.

Stormy, jst got round to reading your post. Well put.
OK class, let me explain:

2) (quote)"so that others would forgive them"(/quote) - (sarcasm)yeah that's the whole point of religion(/sarcasm) - and that's where it started (man trying to live with other man's wrongful acts), but it didn't work, hence eternal hell (religion)...

[schnitzel_bob]

I wanted to restart this thread, because I think it has potential.

So I want to shift things over a little bit. We should distinguish between religion and spirituality. For example, although I'm an Atheist and not religious, I would consider myself a spiritual person in that I think about faith alot.
Alternately, a person could be religious but not spiritual, ie. someone who participates in all the rituals of their religion without thinking about it or without believing (I'm thinking of Speedy's comment about being jewish earlier).
Thoughts?

[SuperDavidGT]

I agree their is a difference, but I'm short of definitions. I would guess that religion points to a more cultural belief, while spirituality is more personal, less focused on pleasing a deity and more focused on the world around you.

I get the impression that the big three religions are all about divinity and pleasing Him above. The more spiritual religions and beliefs, like Buddhism, are more about doing what's right on a more human level.

I'm all for Karma, and believe strongly in fate/causality. I guess that means I'm spiritual, but in no way religious.

[Downfall]

that works

[SuperDavidGT]

cntstoppsitngshti!

[schnitzel_bob]

Religion was invented becuase poeple coulndnt handle the fact that there is no goddamned meaning of life. The meaning of life is to become compost. Get over it. While you're here, you might as well drink and be merry, and fuck what the clergy says.

On a side note, to quote the mighty Red Hot Chili Peppers: Catholic Schoolgirls rule!

[Downfall]

always look on the bhrighter side of life

[Digital Limit]

Pay it forward, too.

[SuperDavidGT]

Catholic Schoolgirls rule!


No shit, I'm engaged to one :D :eek: :confused: :o :rolleyes:

[Digital Limit]

You're engaged? Fuck yeah, nice work.