Extreme Benching w/ my Radeon 9700

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

MY Puppy Has Landed.. my Puppy.. a Radeon 9700 w/ samsung ram on it.. and I will mod it into a PRO soon.. simply rocks.. yeah yeah I know I just got me an old card but hey I bought what I could afford and I must say it has been a great experience till yet.. so here goes the numbers that i have crunched thus far but I would like to have some feedback and there are some questions that need to be answered..

First off the Benches:

PCMARK2002
CPU: 4467
Memory: 4329
HDD: 898

3DMark2001 SE: 11009 (defaults)
3DMark2003: 4401 (defaults)

Now for the games.. All games run thus far were run on 1024*768*32 with Max detail levels.. Comments include AA and AF settings and stuttering if any that I faced.. All tests run on the computer were NOT with a fresh install of XP or DirectX.. My previous card was a Geforce 2 MX 400 w/ 32 MB of ram by ASUS w/ 41.09 drivers.. Drivers were UnInstalled and then Driver Cleaner V 1.3.1 was used to remove the remaining traces.. DX 9 or any other drivers for that matter including SB Live Sound Drivers were NOT re-installed.. Also Monitor Settings were set at 1024*768*32 @ 72MHz Refresh Rate.. Its a Samsung SyncMaster 550s (yeah I know its old but I still love it).. Also FRAPS V 1.9A was used for counting fps (available at Fraps.com).. Also no patches were applied and CAT 3.1s were used though I would bench again with 3.2s also.. I am going to test all the 146 Titles that I own one by one and post results hence, this short list will be updated as I complete my testing of this AMAZING card.. So without further ado here are the results..

Game Name FPS Comments
-----------------------------------------------------
Indiana Jones 31 4XAA 8XAF (AA&AF had no effect on fps)
Postal 2 40 4XAA 8XAF (Sound related stuttering)
Rayman 3 60 2XAA 4XAF (AA&AF had no effect on fps)
NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 61 2XAA 4XAF (NICEEEEE)
Freelancer 60-71 2XAA 4XAF (Stuttering due to sound)
Unreal 2 45-70 4XAA 8XAF (Minor Stuttering [sound])
RTCW (w/ Truform) 91 4XAA 8XAF (A WHOLE new game)
C&C: Generals 31 2XAA 4XAF
Quake 3 Arena 91 4XAA 8XAF
Mafia 30-45 2XAA 4XAF
Kingpin 61 4XAA 8XAF
Soldier of Fortune 2 61 2XAA 4XAF (Had to use DXT1 Compression)
No One Lives Forever 2 60-75 4XAA 8XAF (NICEEEEE)
Half-Life N/A (Did not run as XP is not supported)

Thus, far there are a few questions bugging me..

1) Why do I get only 91 FPS in Q3?

2) SB Live rendered playing freelancer virtually impossible.. is there a workaround this problem.. btw I can turn off audio from SB Live and run the onboard sound but still any recommended drivers that can help me with this problem?

3) Does the limit of 60 or 72 fps due to refresh rates of the monitor as VSync was on in all games as turning off Vsync DID NOT help the frame rates.

4) Why is my 3D Mark 2k1 score so low?

5) I get extremely low fps 20-30 on Battle of Proxycon and Trolls Lair Demos or Benchmarks in 3D Mark 2k3.. Is this normal?

6) What does Truform Do?

7) In general are my frame rates ok.. because Indiana Jones and Generals have way too low fps comparing with my GF2 that ran those games on Medium settings with 20-25 fps.. Is this normal or what?

8) My puppy gets really hot like burning kindof hot (around 55-56 C) so which cooling kit should I install.. I cant do the Cooljag mod so I am not even considering that.. I can go with the thermaltake kit like the one that comes on Tyan's cards or a Zalman but i think Zalman would not be able to stand such high tempratures.. any recommendations would be appreciated.. this heat is the reason I havent flashed the bios.. plz advise on this.. btw my Geforce 2 MX had a temp sensor.. why dont Radeons have those.. even that ran on 51 C anyways.. my CPU and MOBO run on 38 and 36 C respectively.. are those tempratures good.. and I have managed to put a 36 cm fan right next to my case as the case is now open for the summers.. plz provide with any feedback that you may have for me any thing I can do to tweak my system as in the Sig..

Thanx.

[sushi128]

1. quake 3 is kinda cpu dependent. that could be your problem.

2. SB Live has always given me problems, and i stopped trying to fix them. got an audigy, and i haven't looked back.

3. Vsync allows frame rates at multiples of the refresh rate (72hz, then 72fps, 144fps, etc....). in any case, since it's an older monitor, i suggest you turn it on. i think you're notice the tearing more on older monitors.

4. why don't u check the ORB, then comeback with a compare link? i can see what you're lacking.

5. 3Dmark03 is shit. and yes, proxycon and troll's lair shouldn't be too high.

6. truform is a technique that defines curves. it does this by taking triangles, and smoothing them into curves. it's a bit more complicated, but this is basically what it does.

7. frame rate will rates will vary by game. i wouldn't worry too much if some games have lower rates than others.

8. radeons run really hot, and so do geforce 4's. there's nothing to worry about.

as far as advice goes, i'll need the compare link for both 3Dmark03 and 3Dmark2k1 :)

[JerraMaya]

haan , i have a way if ur card gets really hot ,throw a bucket of water on it to cool :D , hey u dont need anything to cool it down if ur casing is open and the place where ur pc is should be cool thats it just play games and enjoy ur card performance :D

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

Thanx Sushi Man.. and jerremi.. just one more thing how can i detect if a bios has been flashed on a card.. btw where the fuck is yian.. anyways.. i got this card and it runs on 324/310.5 settings thats a pro dammit.. also when it boots up it says nothing like my gf2 used to say ASUS V7100 series etc etc.. now it just shows the intel p4 logo directly.. is this normal.. help regarding this would be appreciated!

[sushi128]

you're worried...that video BIOS POST's so fast that you can't see it? the damn card works, don't it? lol........

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

Sushi i got a fucking pro for 220 bucks.. can u beat that!.. muhahaha.. i am so happy i think i am going to pee all over AT.. just for the fuck of it!.. btw what are u running sushi!

[sushi128]

traded my Ti4200+80$ for a non-pro. had to give up the loyal albatron......but i'd say that was worth....120$? so 200$ for a non-pro. flashed it already, haven't gotten around to playing with it and all that jazz.

anyway, if you're wondering, i can't see the video POST either; but do u see ME freakin out over it? ;)

and "old" card? you've got one of the most powerful cards avaliable.....and you're callin it "old"?

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

I just wished that shipping from USA to Pak did not take a month.. damn actually it shipped in 4 days using fedex but my friend took it too long to send out the money order etc.. and i just wished there was a moment in march when i could say i own the fastest card on the planet.. but w/ radeon 9800 pro all over the place i guess it got old.. damn!.. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I AINT HAPPY.. :D see the teeth in there

and u are also running a 9700 damn! when did that happen.. ?!?!

[sushi128]

well, i still need a good sub amp :D

but this guy realized he didn't need a 9700, but still wanted to game, so he traded down to a Ti4200 with me. and to be honest, your scores seem right where they should be. i score around 13000 and 4800 "stock overclock". increase in 2k1SE can be accounted for by my faster cpu, and since 3Dmark03 isn't cpu dependent AT ALL, we both are in the same ballpark.

the only time i could say i had the fastest was when i got my geforce 2 PRO. then a month or two later, the ultra was released :D

i didn't even get a voodoo 3 3000 til after the 3500 came out.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

When if ever i said i own the fastest card.. it was with a Voodoo 1 4 mb.. damn now that was wayyyy back!

[JerraMaya]

Originally posted by WhoGivesARatsAss
when it boots up it says nothing like my gf2 used to say ASUS V7100 series etc etc.. now it just shows the intel p4 logo directly.. is this normal.. help regarding this would be appreciated!

well your geforce 2 was the make of Asus that y it was showing the logo , it depends on the manufacturer they want to show it or not and ur Radeon not showing it is gr8 coz i thinks it only takes more time in loading and its useless

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by WhoGivesARatsAss
When if ever i said i own the fastest card.. it was with a Voodoo 1 4 mb.. damn now that was wayyyy back!

I had that card, the intergraph im pretty sure ur talking about... i installed it into my pc not too long ago, and was able to play quake 3, didnt get to try any other games though, man was it cool voodoo 1 running quake 3 at a decent fps... it was comparable to a gforce 2 mx i thought cuz thats the other card i had... oh well... that was the good old days, man was that oem moto racer game bundeled with it sooo fucking fun and turok yeahhh boyeee!

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

i played nfs2 and 3 on it all day.. man voodoo sure rocked when it did.. but the iq on radeons is way too cool.. ti 4s can only feel embarassed compared to this puppy.. and Ati demos are cool too.. though ppl like to fantasize the nvidia naked dawn bitch.. lol.. its so hilarious that ppl want to run dawn demo on their radeons to see a set of tits.. i think i should advise them to come to our general forums..

[sushi128]

maybe u say that cause you had a GF4 MX? nvidia really did a great job cleaning up their IQ in the GF4's. AF, though still a huge performance hit as compared to the radeons, looks much nicer than with the GF2's (known for horrible IQ).

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by sushi128
maybe u say that cause you had a GF4 MX? nvidia really did a great job cleaning up their IQ in the GF4's. AF, though still a huge performance hit as compared to the radeons, looks much nicer than with the GF2's (known for horrible IQ).

WILL YOU PLEASE STFU ABOUT MY VID CARD,
gosh im waiting for the 9800 pro to come out chill man...

[sushi128]

hey, it's still better than the GF2's. let's not get too edgy here :)

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

sushi man i have seen a ti 4200 and ti 4600 in action and i own a 9700 pro.. (it is actually a 9700 pro as the cat 3.2s registered it as a 9700 pro weeee.. :D ) anyways.. the IQ on ti4200 and 4600 looks pretty bad compared to what the 9700 pro has to offer.. u turn on 4X AA and 16X AF and u can see how much better 9700 pro renders the game.. compared to tis.. also the ti suffers huge performance hits i am saying almost 60% of actual fps is lost whereas the 9700 pro suffers around at most 30% and that only i saw in Mafia.. also i have been benching this puppy for hours on end and have seen that i get constant 60 fps in almost all games regardless of AA and AF.. this seems to be a monitor refresh rate bottleneck since virtually i suffer no loss by bumping AA and AF.. and 60 fps is 100% playable fps.. so now for the question

how do i increase frame rates.. as i have had vsync on and off but i still get constant 60-65 fps in games.. and i want more.. any ideas!.. its not abt the cpu anymore..

[sushi128]

depends on what game you're playing. mafia isn't gonna get any better cause of it's absolutely horribly optimized engine.

and i've also seen a Ti4600 and played with my own Ti4200. yes, AA and AF takes much larger performance hits than with any ATI. but that's not the point. 8xS AA with 8x AF is absolutely stunning, and definitely comparable to my current IQ.

oh, and why haven't u tried 6x AA? like u said, not like the performance hit is very much.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

oh crap i forgot to post these results before..

btw some more results just in..

Splinter Cell 42-48 fps MAX DETAIL + 6X + 16X but i could not see any effect of AA or AF in the game..
Raven Sheild 35-42 fps MAX DETAIL App App as readme says do not force AA and AF as it will lead to crashes and I didnt have the time to check for that
UT2003 Benchmark 40 fps In Game 45-55 MAX everything w/ EAX etc
Warcraft 3 62 fps Max everything 6X + 16X but I think my monitor was bottlenecking the frame rates
GTA 3 61 fps MAX everything w/ 6X + 16X but no there was some tearing and textures would not load w/ spaces between roads etc.. (no patch was applied) also this did not happen w App App settings

X2: Wolverines Revenge Constant 65 fps w/ 6XAA and 16XAF

Code Creatures Code Cult

1024*768*32 36.5 fps w/ no AA
1024*768*32 31.3 fps w/ 2X AA
1024*768*32 29.5 fps w/ 4X AA

[comlink]

If I ever get around to replacing half of my water system, I'll OC again and post some numbers from my system. I have a 9700 Pro and a Athlon XP 1900+ (which won't OC the bad thing), so I should get numbers right around yours after some tweaking.

[aphremen]

What water cooling system you usin'?

[IkYiolul]

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU RUNNING BENCHMARKS AT 1024/768?????????????
I RUN ALL MY GAMES 1152/1024
I hope you run a slower computer than me if ur testing it at such low res.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by IkYiolul
WHY THE HELL ARE YOU RUNNING BENCHMARKS AT 1024/768?????????????
I RUN ALL MY GAMES 1152/1024
I hope you run a slower computer than me if ur testing it at such low res.

gosh, the difference between what hes doin and ur running is minimal and especially wouldnt really make a diff. on a radeon 9700 pro. most benchmarks are done at that resolution anyways

[IkYiolul]

if I had a 9700 pro, I would be running 1600/1200 for my gaming res, and 1280/1152 for my benchmarks. thats why im wondering why the hell he's doin 1024 benches, my old geforce 256 i did 1024 benches on...meet the limits of the card, damn you u forked out the dough, now make the thing sweat.

[ZANDAMORPHIS]

Originally posted by IkYiolul
if I had a 9700 pro, I would be running 1600/1200 for my gaming res, and 1280/1152 for my benchmarks. thats why im wondering why the hell he's doin 1024 benches, my old geforce 256 i did 1024 benches on...meet the limits of the card, damn you u forked out the dough, now make the thing sweat.

TRUE DAT! lol a lil bit of gangsta talk from me!

even though im the whitest of the white lol

[sushi128]

1024 x 768 is the standard for benchmarks. it has proven to give the most accurate representation of total system power (1600 x 1200 tends to rely too heavily on the GPU, while 640 x 480 has been shown to be entirely cpu dependent). that's why.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

What sushi said is what exactly i did.. and 1024*768 is pretty cool for my system.. (as u can see it is only mid range and is in my sig) also my 15" monitor doesnt support more than 1024 res.. thats why.. anyways.. here is 1 more result that i did.. will do more over the weekend.. this is more than just benchinmarking.. the point of all of this is to see if my radeon card can run all the shit that i have stocked over the years or not.. 148 games is a hell lot of games i think.. btw i am thinking abt not running the software games like some adventure games that i have.. coz it takes a shitload of time to install from 4 cds etc..

now for the result

Red Faction II constant 75 fps (75MHz refresh rate) 6X AA and 16X AF smooth as silk..

[sushi128]

75fps seems kinda low. like we discussed before, the radeons don't take much hit from AA and AF. i'll check out FRAPS and see what i get.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

i am using fraps.. i really wonder.. where is the fix for refresh rates and frame rates.. damn i need more fps!

[sushi128]

u don't need the FPS, but the fact that you aren't gettin it tells u something.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

tells me what?!?! anyways.. can u help me with this..

my post on other forums:
"Ok i have tried everything.. searching for sites etc.. and even on the forums the best i found was a refresh rate fix that was in damn other language and was a beta version.. I HATE BETA VERSIONS.. so can anyone tell me why my frame rates are equal to refresh rates.. i am really wondering.. i do a 60Hz refresh rate then i get 60 frames and when i do 75 i get 75 frames.. wtf? and only in q3 engine games do i get above 75 and that is only 90 in every q3 engine game.. sof2, jk2, mohaa, q3.. all give me 90 frames.. AA and AF dont matter crap.. i mean i have tried vsync on and off but it doesnt work either.. now i am sick of this.. i need more fps.. can anyone plz help me with this.. the system is in my sig and my monitor is capable of supporting 1024*768 at 85hz or something then i get 85 frames but only in some games.. cpu cant be the bottleneck for q3.. for crying out loud it is a 4 yr old engine.. and game.. plz help me out here.. thanx in advance.. this is driving me nuts really.. "

[sushi128]

the cpu IS the bottleneck for quake 3; this engine is well-known for it's incredible scaling ability :)

anyway, so....you've been to the ATI control panel, and "wait for vertical sync" is "always off", right? and on the monitor tab, you've selected a highest refresh rate? just check these few things.

and then check 3Dmark2k1 or 03 with fraps. these should be vsync off by default, so if they have vsync ON, that means it's a driver problem. if not, that means you just need to adjust the settings somewhere.

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

so sushi what did u get on red faction!