"My" country and its indigenous population.

[MrBored]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/MrBored69/dailysun1pg4.jpg

And its only going to get worse. They also have plans to completely regulate the market and go away from the free market system. Basically going against common sense and every first world country. Amongst many many other cases of idiocy.

Go SA!

[tisl]

Wow, way to improve your condition as a race and actually accomplish something. Encourage stealing! Maybe next week he'll encourage AIDS.

[farsimon]

...and that's why they will always be viewed in a derogatory way by the whites in South Africa. Not because the whites are racists, but because the blacks (well the ones that say these things anyway) are a bunch of stupid baboons who will never climb down from the trees to become human beings.

and no, I'm not a racist.

[LynX]

SA= San Andreas? :p

[MrBored]

Suck Ass.

[Lehesu]

Actually, Free Market economy can be devastating to a developing nation without some form of price protection for domestic markets.

[MrBored]

Our markets are pretty well developed, we're not like other african countries. Although we will be soon. I can't wait for the land reclamation...

[WhoGivesARatsAss]

That's some fucked up nigga shit...

[Becci]

Wow, talk about twisted.

[Downfall]

nuke the whales?

[MasterOfReality]

I guess this whole repossession idea might work, but I highly doubt that they would be stealing sheep, cattle and other farm animals. They would be stealing cars and TVs and money and stuff, and that was never theirs.
I wonder what the white community's response to this was.

[MrBored]

The white communities response was something along the lines of, "fucking kaffirs". Followed by the purchase or more ammunition.

Repossession is retarded, obviously. Its just theft. They don't realise that the white man has given them more than they have taken away. The hadn't even invented the wheel by the time Jan Van Riebeek arrived on a ship. They're so fucking stupid. If only we had given them small pox or something like the Spanish did in the US. We wouldn't be having this problem now.

Oh well, they obviously hate us more than we hate them, we all should really just get the fuck out asap. Aus, prepare to have another SA immigrant. You guys killed off your native population quite nicely.

[2Lions]

I laughed out loud when I read the part where they say they will deal with them in an African way by bewitching them.

What the fuck, dude? They still in the fucking stone age or something?

I'd be buying myself an M4 in that country.

[MrBored]

I'm not sure, I don't think they've mastered stone yet. I think they're still in the Just-come-down-from-the-trees age. Our ex vice president believes you can cure AIDS with a shower and our president believes HIV doesn't cause AIDS, its awesome.

[Phobo]

I'm getting me a gun before I come to SA in 2010 to watch the worldcup that's for sure

[MrBored]

That raises another point. In 2010 there are going to be thousands of European supporters coming to a country which has pratically zero public transport infrastructure. The transport that the locals use are minibus taxis which are never road worthy and they drive like they own the place. They're always over crowded and are the result of most of our road accidents. If you do come to SA, please hire a car and never use this transport, for your own safety. There is the odd bus route, you can use them if you like the smell of urine and rot.

[Vlad]

South Africa has 2 major problems, and neither greatly threatens the stability of the nation.
These are crime and HIV. Over 20% of the population is HIV positive, and crime rates are second highest in the world.

Almost ~80% of the population is classified as 'black', and a further ~9% 'coloured' with ~9% white (caucasian). Around ~2.5% is indian/asian in origin.

With strong immigration, a surging population (~47 million so far) and a very large resource base, south africa has the potential to become a very competitive nation.
Of course, as the population grows, and the economy falters due to rampant crime rates and the HIV epidemic, it is possible that the standards of living will decrease for most, despite steady economic growth. Nonetheless, for most migrants coming in from the surrounding African nations, conditions would still be more favourable for them than at home.

Ultimately, solve the rampant crime problems, solve the extremely unequal wealth distribution issues (Only Brazil and India show a greater divide between its country's wealthy and poor residents) and bring the HIV epidemic under some semblance of control, and you will see a very prosperous and dynamic state emerge on the horn of africa.

Oh well, they obviously hate us more than we hate them, we all should really just get the fuck out asap. Aus, prepare to have another SA immigrant. You guys killed off your native population quite nicely.

Well at the beginning of colonization, there were around 900,000-1 million indigenous peoples living in Australia.
A few decades later there were around 40,000.
However, now there are almost 500,000 indigenous australians and growing.
They have much higher birth rates than the rest of the population, which mostly relies on immigration and a half-arsed procreation effort to bolster the numbers. If all white south africans moved here, that would be great. We have plenty of room to spare, and then some. That would be around 4 million extra souls to add to our puny 20 million. Australia needs more people to be a great power. We have the technology, we have the resource base, but we most certainly lack people.

Around 100 million would be ideal. After all, we do have a whole continent for them. Indonesia is exploding at the seams (~240 million people), if it werent for our conservative government's protectionist policies, we could be receiving massive numbers of immigrants from the south east asia region.
We have huge resources to tap into and exploit, and ridiculous amounts of land to populate, yet here we sit like morons admiring the vast untapped scenery.

And its only going to get worse. They also have plans to completely regulate the market and go away from the free market system. Basically going against common sense and every first world country. Amongst many many other cases of idiocy.

Go SA!

A very unregulated market economy in a country such as south africa at the present time, is only contributing to problems such as crime and economic inequality (which leads to crime). Until the issue is stabilized, the government should intervene. The united states, despite all the rhetoric, has a 30% government public economy (socialist). That is a large percentage, and it is necessary. Without government meddling many problems would emerge. It would be disastrous for example if the Welfare system in Australia was curtailed or cut off for example. Without it many more of the 2-3 million people that rely on it would turn to a life of crime and decadence.

As a university student I greatly rely on my fortnightly payments, and the fact the government pays for my yearly $6,000 univerisiy fees, without which I would not be able to buy clothes, food and books needed, or even go to university at all. Instead I would be working at McDonalds never going up in the world because I simply couldn't afford to get a degree and do something with my life. I come from a poor working family and with this system in place I can rise up without having to screw others over to do so.

[MrBored]

There is a lot more wrong than just that. We have an affirmative action policy which they like to call BEE, black economic empowerment. This has 2 negative effects, it makes educated white people immigrate as soon as they are qualified and it employs people who are less qualified. They simply don't care about merit. If a black person applies for the job they will get it over a white person regardless. The black people that are put into power are often completely uneffective in their positions. They think they deserve it and don't have to work to keep it. It also doesn't serve to spread the wealth. There are a select few black people who are getting increasingly wealthy while the majority get poorer. Its the same old story. Just this time the corruption levels are far far higher. You can't regulate a market with this much corruption and incompetence.

The government only has short term planning, they implement strategies which in the short term may look good, but completely fail in the long term. We're an incredibly coal rich nation and we have a nuclear power plant, yet since 1994 there has been no energy planning what so ever (this is a regulated market, there is only one energy provider, Eskom). In 1998 we had the technology to develop Pebble Bed Nuclear reactors which we could have used ourselves and sold to the rest of the world. This project was halted. We have had a time of rolling black outs in Cape Town and severe power problems. When basic public services like that start to fail, you really worry about the success of the nation.

South Africa just has a much stronger base to fall back on. Other countries in Africa weren't as well equiped and developed, and thats why they fell to chaos so quickly after their return to power. We currently have a potentially volatile situation in the Zuma trial. He might divide the ANC supporters and cause endless shit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/MrBored69/DSC00214.jpg

That was taken in a lecture last year. Really encouraging stuff.

Your point about AIDS, its a bigger problem than people let on. Its as if the african culture was specifically designed to fuck them over in this regard. They have strong beliefs that they must see a Sangoma, or witch doctor, instead of going to hospital. They manage to hold out and rely on herbal remedies until they are almost dead before they will seek western medicine. My mother works as a radiotherapist, dealing with cancer treatment. One of the side effects of AIDS is that it can cause certain kinds of cancer. Sometimes the growths are so large that they look like tennis balls under the skin, sometimes worse. They rarely live very long after seeking treatment and this probably serves to reinforce their anti-western attitudes.

There is also the belief that raping a white girl will cure aids, that condoms are a device that white people use to stop the increase of black population and the old classic, that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. These are all on top of the usual, it won't happen to me attitude.

Also, our immigrants seem to be mostly Nigerians who add to the increasing crime problems. I could go on forever.

I could go on for ever

[farsimon]

Hey man, although there are bad things happening, you must also remember that there are good things also in our country, and always focusing on the bad will only give you a hernia.

Stop being so negative and just do your part, it is because everyone is so negative and no-one does anything about it, that our country is in the state it is. If everyone does their part and stop falling down the same "oh noes my country is ruined" rabbithole, this place would surely be a much better place to live in.

I for one think that there is more good than bad anyways, if you consider that our government has only been in power for 12 years now. That's still a really young age for any government, and as with anyone inexperienced, you learn by trial and error and drop what doesn't work and keep what does work.

This country is definately in a better state than it has ever been before. As any country it has its problems, the only thing is it has different problems now than it had before, and they're not more, they're just different.

There will always be idiots around in any government and any country like the fucker in the above article, Zuma and even Bush. But there are also good people that "sort of" balance it out.

[Vlad]

You make some detailed and valid points MrBored, and I agree with most of them. However, most nations have some serious issues to deal with, yet they manage in the end. It seems like you're over-reacting in terms of your forecasts for the future of the richest and most prosperous state in Africa.

Do what farsimon suggests and work towards solutions to all these problems. Live a positive and productive life and make your home all the more successful. As farsimon says, there are many good progressive players that will balance out the more decadent and ill-conceived factions in the end, and ultimately this balance will put South Africa on a path forward. All societies are a game of balance. Not all elements of the population can be content and happy 100% of the time (unless you're living in some sort of technocratic communist utopia).
For the leaders of all functioning nations, it is a fine balancing act. You can't please everyone at any one point in time.

Needless to say, what are your suggestions to rectify some of these issues?
Certainly educating people about AIDS at an earlier age would serve to put some of the more outlandish witch doctor remedies out of contention.

As for government neglect towards diversifying/expanding infrastructure in your country such as fulfilling energy needs through exploitation of the vast coal reserves and promoting nuclear energy, it seems that you need a more progressive and adventurous government to enact these much needed economic changes and reforms. I'm not sure less government meddling will lead to more nuclear power plants or more exploitation of proven coal reserves, unless it is absolutely necessary and the market demands it. In that case private enterprise should be a progressive factor in this field at least.

Also, our immigrants seem to be mostly Nigerians who add to the increasing crime problems.

The element of crime(particularly organized and to do with corruption on a private level) is a direct by-product(or if not a by-product then usually heavily influenced by) economic distribution disparities present in the labour demographic. This is the outcome of rapid development.

South Africa is considered a developed country(economically at least) and as such, it should start working on issues such as welfare and wealth disparity.
The poor and uneducated will always be the main catalyst for increased crime. By tackling poverty and all the bad connotations that go with it, crime should decrease 'relatively' (decrease in crime rates per capita). In the United States for example, despite such riches and development, crime in certain areas is rampant solely due to unequal wealth distribution and as you say with the Nigerians, uneducated and subsequently poor immigrants coming into the country to find work.

I guess immigration could be more tightly controlled to help offset the immigrant factor contributing to wealth disparity. Only allow more educated candidates into the country(of course this is easier said than done, the borders of South Africa are notoriously porous), and work on increasing education to give more people a fair go. Those mired in severe poverty will find it hard to work for their food and their school books at the same time, so they will choose food over school. This is where welfare and increased government meddling in the social issues at least comes in.
I am severely simplifying the problems in South Africa, but you see my general idea I'm sure.
Economically, perhaps a freer market is the right choice as you suggest. Socially, I believe the government needs to get off it's fat arse and do some hands on meddling, because the demographic wealth distribution issues in South Africa are very complex, seeing as there are so many official languages and cultures. These problems simply can't solve themselves in such a complex and unpredictable system.

It seems to me that your current government has run out of ideas, and is tackling problems as they arise, instead of coming up with some sort of longer term plan, like you said. Vote your government out of office(if there are healthier alternatives) or start your own crusade towards much needed reforms. In most democracies the majority is stupid and ingorant. It is the smaller much more manipulative minorities that know how the system works and that subsequently control the country. Join one of these minorities and fight for your beliefs. Become a vocal activist or an influential news reporter and sway public opinion. Do something, sitting and complaining won't make the problems go away. I'm sure many people there feel just as you do. All they need is a leader, or any other common mechanism for action and implementation of goals.

[MrBored]

I have considered a lot of all the points raised, and I have decided to over simplify the problem based on 1 simple fact. There is no first world country on the entire planet run by africans. There are many solutions too all of the problems, most countries have put these solutions into practice and proved they work well. The leaders of this country just seem to think the opposite and they believe an "African" solution is needed for every problem.

@Farsimon: I don't think you realise how much they don't want white people in this country. You can enjoy the reign of the honourable Jacob Zuma (I can't see anyone else getting into power after Mbeki goes), I'm not going to bother.

[farsimon]

I have considered a lot of all the points raised, and I have decided to over simplify the problem based on 1 simple fact. There is no first world country on the entire planet run by africans. There are many solutions too all of the problems, most countries have put these solutions into practice and proved they work well. The leaders of this country just seem to think the opposite and they believe an "African" solution is needed for every problem.

@Farsimon: I don't think you realise how much they don't want white people in this country. You can enjoy the reign of the honourable Jacob Zuma (I can't see anyone else getting into power after Mbeki goes), I'm not going to bother.
I work with leaders in the black industry every day, and I can ensure you, a lot is being done to improve the future of this country that is not always as apparent as one would hope since many of these processes take a lot of time.

If that gives me a solid reason to still have hope, so be it.

[unskinnybob]

Thats right Farsi. Things are getting better.

http://www.crimexposouthafrica.org/ focuses purely on crime. Until the webmaster openly started advertising the worrying crime truth to the international community Government's official response to white people's crime gripes were; "Move out of the country". Farm murders = genocide. No debate. A taste of things to come. If Uhuru is real, you're in for one big wakeup call...

http://www.hellkom.co.za points out how the public is being shafted by THE ONLY Telecoms company in South Africa. But hey, SNO is coming out soon and Telkom's pricing monopoly on SAT3 expires soon. This will make a change. Surely. Right.

BEE works. Just look at the super rich black business empowerment partners. Animal farm right there.

[MrBored]

Crap, that Crime Expo site is depressing.

[schnitzel_bob]

Vlad, the horn of Africa is on the East (Somalia, Ethiopia, Erythrea, Djibouti).

[SuperDavidGT]

Why don't you guys just leave?

You remind me of the cling-ons, grabbing onto the bear's assfur for dear life, never wanted to leave the comfort of home even if it is an asshole.

[MrBored]

Why don't you guys just leave?

You remind me of the cling-ons, grabbing onto the bear's assfur for dear life, never wanted to leave the comfort of home even if it is an asshole.
It can be a bit tough when your currency is shit and your government doesn't allow you to take relatively small amounts of money out of the country, but once I've finished my degree, I'm gone.

[Vlad]

Vlad, the horn of Africa is on the East (Somalia, Ethiopia, Erythrea, Djibouti).

Oops I know. Thanks for correcting me.

[farsimon]

If Uhuru is real, you're in for one big wakeup call...

You might as well say - if the boogyman's real...

But all the points stated, although valid, are only the negative. If you can't see any good, it's ridiculous to still live here, honestly.

It's morons like the guy who started the crime expo site who keep dragging the country under the water, because even if those events are facts they are still hate mongers, because crimes like these happens all over the world as well. Instead of nagging like an old wife about crime thay could actually do something about it.

A country cannot be improved by government and police alone - it needs to start with the attitude of the people.

[unskinnybob]

Well - you keep smiling when someone sticks a gun in your face.

Goverment is setting a climate favorable for criminals. As long as this is the case whistling the star-spangled banner out your ass isn't going to improve the situation.

Government and the media are trying to cover up crime. WHY?

[MrBored]

Government and the media are trying to cover up crime. WHY?

"Because its easy."

10c to whoever gets that SP quote.