Atheists care about religion because...

[Digital Limit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

Enlightening.

[SuperDavidGT]

All the more reason America should commit mass self destruction.

[MrBored]

That was pretty good. From what I can gather, most of the religious shit started in the 50's. wtf caused that?

[SuperDavidGT]

Wasn't that when Jesus was born?

[unskinnybob]

Elvis.

[Digital Limit]

That was pretty good. From what I can gather, most of the religious shit started in the 50's. wtf caused that?

Cold War, n00b.

[MrBored]

Fucking Elvis. Penn & Teller did an episode on that whole Boyscout thing, its all because of the Mormons, which is quite disturbing.

Cold War, n00b.

That only really escalated in the mid 50s, but I guess you're right. Nothing like fear tactics to stir up religious support.

[Digital Limit]

Religion is obnoxious. It's cutting me off from some of the more sane women in Madison.

Talk about awkward reccomending Chasing Amy to some of the more virgin folks around here.

Luckily, they left early in on the movie just before the talk about sex, and especially before the "finger cuffs" bit.

Score one more for people being tired: I dodged a bullet there.

[Digital Pimp]

Even though I am a Christian, I find it disgusting that we still don't let people into organizations or let them hold office just because of their religious beliefs. Though a person like me with that belief would never be lected because the religious right are the ones who do the majority of voting, I've seen the numbers of republicans voting and democrats voting and its unfortunate the Dems don't have larger numbers.

[TopSecretBoy]

Everyone is born athiest.

[tisl]

Atheists don't care about religion. American atheists care about religion because Americans have decided to master nagging instead of apathy like the rest of the world.

[dimsum411]

I hate the way he says, "I care"

[Digital Limit]

Atheists don't care about religion. American atheists care about religion because Americans have decided to master nagging instead of apathy like the rest of the world.

Stop talking.

[farsimon]

remember one thing:

whether we agree that religion is shit or not, it does have a purpose, and that is to drive people to be better human beings - and the main focus is not only towards a "god" but also towards fellow man. If you don't like it, there are bazillions of other sheep who do believe in it, and if you take their religion away from them they will become totally aimless and chaos will reign this planet.

[SuperDavidGT]

Stop talking.

Can't handle the truth, huh?

remember one thing:

whether we agree that religion is shit or not, it does have a purpose, and that is to drive people to be better human beings - and the main focus is not only towards a "god" but also towards fellow man. If you don't like it, there are bazillions of other sheep who do believe in it, and if you take their religion away from them they will become totally aimless and chaos will reign this planet.

Problem is, most people who follow religion either do it in the name of god, just so they can reach their supposed afterlife with good credit, or they follow the clever bastard who exploits their religion to get the weak minded sheep to do their bidding.

And I'm not making a reference to any particular religion there, because each is just as bad as the others.

[farsimon]

Can't handle the truth, huh?



Problem is, most people who follow religion either do it in the name of god, just so they can reach their supposed afterlife with good credit, or they follow the clever bastard who exploits their religion to get the weak minded sheep to do their bidding.

And I'm not making a reference to any particular religion there, because each is just as bad as the others.
it still keeps society together to some extent. People can't handle that responsibility themselves, and if they have to fool themselves as to why they follow religion or if they're too blind to see what's really behind their religion - who gives a shit? I'd rather live in a society of braindead sheep than an anarchy of braindead sheep.

[SuperDavidGT]

Anarchy beats the shit out of the day to day monotony we go through now.

Besides, the problem with society isn't which religion, it's how many religions. We have clerics over here declaring Australia a muslim nation, and wondering why mosques are getting shot at. Look at Ireland; sure it's not so bad now, but 10 years ago they were gunning their neighbours down because they don't follow Christ the right way. And don't get me started on Israel.

[farsimon]

Anarchy beats the shit out of the day to day monotony we go through now.

I prefer my running water and electricity, thank you very much.

[unskinnybob]

The problem lies not with the religion but with the religious leader. Look at my avatar. Remember him putting his big fat foot in his mouth recenlty?

[BodomBeachTerror]

I am Catholic and I hate Protestant Christians more than any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.

Nothing worse than a bible humping Protestant.

[farsimon]

I am Catholic and I hate...

A typical paradox if I ever saw one...

You religious folk really should get a clue and finally figure out that the most important thing in all religions is basically "do onto others...". Who cares what god-thing you believe in if you are just an ignorant asshole. Fix your relationship with your fellow human beings (who is real) first before you start arguing about some supposed deity (who, lets face it, is probably not real by any measure).

[unskinnybob]

I am Catholic and I hate Protestant Christians more than any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.

Nothing worse than a bible humping Protestant.

Lawl - Catholic = pay to pray. And cardinal sin? Get the fuck out of here. You can't have sex before marriage but it's OK to fuck altar boys.

[SuperDavidGT]

One day, all will worship Oprahism

[BodomBeachTerror]

Lawl - Catholic = pay to pray. And cardinal sin? Get the fuck out of here. You can't have sex before marriage but it's OK to fuck altar boys.

I dont pay for shit except for booze, whores, and video games.

[Digital Limit]

http://images.salon.com/news/feature/2005/04/30/dawkins/story.jpg

[absolute_deviation]

I am Catholic and I hate Protestant Christians more than any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.

Nothing worse than a bible humping Protestant.

Amen. fucking protestants. i don't know if catholics do this but it annoys the shit out of me when people "get high on jesus" and talk about "high fiving jesus"
what the fuck lol. isn't he supposed to be god or something? how the hell do you go around high fiving god and take yourself seriously?

Man, sometimes i feel like if there was a god, right about now would be a very good time to intervene. planet earth is going nuts.

Here's something that might seem wierd but it makes sense. So Judgement day right? end of days, predetermined by god. What happens if we collectively plant nukes in every fucking corner of the planet, run them all to one central big red button that would turn the planet into dust if it was pushed. that's would like totally screw up god's original plan right? I say that's the only way to prove or disprove God once and for all. Humans taking over judgment day. that's some deep shit

[absolute_deviation]

by the way no offense to anyone but this new pope. the guy before him looked like his part. this new guy just looks evil.observe
http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc805/74955_Pope_Evil_122_805lo.jpg
http://img45.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-28114/loc805/74955_Pope_Evil_122_805lo.jpg

my fucken picstures are gone

[Digital Limit]

http://www.waynebesen.com/uploaded_images/benedict_xvi-775685.jpg

[absolute_deviation]

so evil
http://travis.kroh.net/archives/004456.jpg
http://www.duckgoesmoo.com/uploads/charles/pope1.jpg
http://old.wheresthebeef.co.uk/rofl/Pope%20Evil.jpg

[SuperDavidGT]

ROFL

[BodomBeachTerror]

hahaha

That new pope is definetly a Sith Master.

[MrBored]

This seemed like the only place for this...

Today I was at a gaming store, that I frequent, and the guy behind the desk said that it was his last day. I asked him what he was planning on doing and he said he was going on a 'spiritual retreat'. Now this brought up something that I've been debating with myself for a while now. I should, by law, be allowed to punch someone in the face for sharing something retarded like that. Why don't people realise that religion is all in their heads??

[farsimon]

Because without religion the masses (henceforth called sheep) will implode upon themselves. Sheep need religion to take some of the guilt and fear inherent in life off their shoulders - they simply cannot handle it by themselves. We need the masses to have religion as well. Can you imagine taking it out of the lives of some of those "huisgenoot tannies" (as a south african you should understand what I meant) - they would shrivel up and die - bitching and moaning and screaming and crying all the way.

Religion is a beautiful fantasy full of hope and carefree jubilation where everything is cared for and no one will hurt you. What sheep wouldn't want that?

[farsimon]

To add to that: Take you for example - the things that cause you to be depressed are the things that religious folk don't care about - because god does if for them. If you had religion you most likely wouldn't be depressed at all.


... and no, I'm not religious.

[MrBored]

But if I was religious, my IQ would have to be about 40-70 points lower, and I wouldn't understand maths. I'll take maths and depression over religion and ignorance any day.

Edit: I also have more reasons, than I've shared, for being depressed, but I don't want to go into them...

[farsimon]

But if I was religious, my IQ would have to be about 40-70 points lower, and I wouldn't understand maths. I'll take maths and depression over religion and ignorance any day.

Edit: I also have more reasons, than I've shared, for being depressed, but I don't want to go into them...

First - Religion doesn't have anything to do with intelligence - and you know that.
Second - I'm not attacking you per se, I was only pointing out the usefulness of religion - I couldn't care less if/why you're depressed.

...anyways, I view depression and any type of psychiatric illness in the same light as religion - a weak excuse to cover for the lack of guts, willpower and determination to deal with life in your own way.

[Lehesu]

As a somewhat religious person, I will just ignore all of this mewling about.

[MrBored]

Actually, I relate religion directly to intelligence. I've never met what I'd called an intelligent person, who was religious (unless they're still fairly young and under the influence of their parents). That doesn't mean that non-religious people are clever though. They may do well academically, but that just means they work hard.

I understand what you mean about the usefulness of religion, it just annoys me that people are that easily controlled.

Depression is directly related to serotonin, its a chemical problem that can be brought on by enviromental causes, but regardless, it becomes something that is not easily overcome by will power. Like today I feel fucking great, like I can take on the world. If I don't sleep well tonight and my serotonin supply drops, then tomorrow I'll be fucked, I guess you could equate will power to how much available serotonin your brain has.

Edit: Not understanding depression is like not understanding migraines. True depression is to migraines as being a bit down is to headaches.

[farsimon]

This reminds me of a "chemical epiphany" of sorts I had a while back .... a long, long while back...

It seems to me that the more intelligent people are the more capacity they have to do evil (aka "bad things"). Now... assume for a moment that there is a god. He would naturally want to prevent the most intelligent being on eath from comitting evil deeds. So what does he do? He makes them trees. So they are "sentenced" to an eternal life of observation with the ability to observe and gather all the wisdom of the ages, but no capacity to act. This means that the trees in the oldest rain forests are the most evil motherfuckers alive. Nuff said.

[MrBored]

Put down the crack pipe...

[LittleChief]

As a somewhat religious person, I will just ignore all of this mewling about.

[MrBored]

I demand you all come to your senses and halt all the religious thought.

[farsimon]

As a somewhat religious person, I will just ignore all of this mewling about.

Gotta love religion:

"Ignorance is bliss"

[MrBored]

heh, indeed.

[iha‏teyou]

Old thread so I'm not going to go through it again entirely.

But really, they can just quit complaining about the pledge and money. I completely agree with the other points in this video, but complaining about simply seeing the word God on the Pledge of Allegiance, and on money is bordering on intolerance, regardless if the original act of placing the word God was intolerant.

[Lehesu]

heh, indeed.

To put it bluntly, whereas the rest of you may have the personal fortitude to continue acting like good, moral, and wholesome people day in and day out, I am prone to pessimism, sarcasm, and generally selfish behavior, as I imagine many humans are. Going to church on Sunday refocuses me on being less of surly, selfish individual, a process that I am generally all too unwilling to halt myself. I don't go to church to have a rah-rah good time loving God and Jesus. I hate that shit and I hate most all forms of evangelism. I need something to keep me honest as a human being, and religion is as good as any a thing to do so.

[farsimon]

To put it bluntly, whereas the rest of you may have the personal fortitude to continue acting like good, moral, and wholesome people day in and day out, I am prone to pessimism, sarcasm, and generally selfish behavior, as I imagine many humans are. Going to church on Sunday refocuses me on being less of surly, selfish individual, a process that I am generally all too unwilling to halt myself. I don't go to church to have a rah-rah good time loving God and Jesus. I hate that shit and I hate most all forms of evangelism. I need something to keep me honest as a human being, and religion is as good as any a thing to do so.
praise jesus!

[tisl]

For the sake of argument, does it matter if it's all fiction?

[MrBored]

Yes. All the problems in the world are caused by religion.

[Fortune Hunter]

All the problems in the world are caused by people

[MrBored]

All the problems in the world are caused by brown people

Oh no he didn't...

[farsimon]

Oh no he didn't...
lol, you're such an asshole.

[MrBored]

*does a little victory dance*

[Digital Limit]

To put it bluntly, whereas the rest of you may have the personal fortitude to continue acting like good, moral, and wholesome people day in and day out, I am prone to pessimism, sarcasm, and generally selfish behavior, as I imagine many humans are. Going to church on Sunday refocuses me on being less of surly, selfish individual, a process that I am generally all too unwilling to halt myself. I don't go to church to have a rah-rah good time loving God and Jesus. I hate that shit and I hate most all forms of evangelism. I need something to keep me honest as a human being, and religion is as good as any a thing to do so.

I find my own free will does that just fine. But eh.

[Lehesu]

Eh, your mileage may vary. I generally do things based on a cost-benefit equation. But not everything fits into that equation; if they did, things would be a lot shittier.

[farsimon]

I just prefer not to fool myself. I like seeing things as they are.

[schnitzel_bob]

Old thread so I'm not going to go through it again entirely.

But really, they can just quit complaining about the pledge and money. I completely agree with the other points in this video, but complaining about simply seeing the word God on the Pledge of Allegiance, and on money is bordering on intolerance, regardless if the original act of placing the word God was intolerant.

The words "one nation under god" were added to the pledge of allegiance in the fifties as a reaction to the scare of 'godless communism'. Most people don't realize that and act as if the founding fathers themselves ordained america as a christian nation, which they most certainly did not.

[MrBored]

Everyone should take some time out of their day to punch a christian in their ovaries.

[psydude20]

To put it bluntly, whereas the rest of you may have the personal fortitude to continue acting like good, moral, and wholesome people day in and day out, I am prone to pessimism, sarcasm, and generally selfish behavior, as I imagine many humans are. Going to church on Sunday refocuses me on being less of surly, selfish individual, a process that I am generally all too unwilling to halt myself. I don't go to church to have a rah-rah good time loving God and Jesus. I hate that shit and I hate most all forms of evangelism. I need something to keep me honest as a human being, and religion is as good as any a thing to do so.
I'm glad it works for you, because I know plenty of people who go to church and yet are some of the biggest assholes and worst human beings I know.

I'm an atheist, but at the same time I don't mind if people practice religion as long as they keep it to themselves. I don't preoccupy myself with hating religious people like most atheists do because I really don't care about religion.

[MrBored]

psydude20, try get your hands on a series called A Brief History of Disbelief and a follow up called the Atheism tapes. I also used to only be an Atheist, but then realised the harm caused by religion, even though I thought I wasn't directly effected by it. Now I'm an Antitheist.

[farsimon]

Like I said before - without religion the world would not be able to continue as is - even with the side-effects. I prefer to focus my hate on fagzors instead - the world can really do without them.

[MrBored]

I, believe it or not, have more faith in humanity.

[Lehesu]

MrBored, to quote Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Most Christians (that I know, anyway) are very low-key with their religion. Now, those crazy evangelists-speaking in tongues-predestination-calvinist-puritan-jehovah's witness types can be extremely belabouring, but they are by no means the majority of Christians. And as to those tapes, well, there are always two sides to every story. Just ask Ann Coulter.

Besides, religion hating is so...blase in this day and age.

[farsimon]

I love it when religious folk come back with a reason why 'theirs' is not the shitty type which they also dislike. There's no such thing as half a christian - you're either one or not - and if you believe otherwise then your not one and in that case you should really reconsider calling yourself religious on the internet in the future - because you will be considered on of them "religious folk".

[MrBored]

Lehesu, I have nothing against the evangelists. They're not the problem. They're just retarded. Those tapes that I talked about are a couple of discussions, they're not what you think they are.

I concur farsimon. I also have issue with 'christians' who pick and chose which parts of the bible they believe is relevant because to believe in some of the parts is so obviously retarded that it would bring down the whole of their religion. The bible even says that you have to take the whole unedited version into account, nothing can be added or changed, you have to follow it all. After telling them that, I like to point them to Leviticus. Its the greatest book in the bible.

Edit: I just felt like I should add this. My primary reason (I just took up this position today) against intelligent design is that our ears aren't angled slightly downwards, so when I bath I have this annoying left over water in my ears. I hate it and I hate having to wait for it to evaporate away.

[farsimon]

when I bath

Real men shower.

[MrBored]

I live in a block of flats that was built before the war. It doesn't have a shower. They sure did know how to build shit back then though, walls are so fucking thick that it remains cool in summer and warm in winter, there are no cracks and you can't hear shit coming from next door.

[psydude20]

I'm well aware of the harm caused by organized religion, but unfortunately it's always going to exist as a byproduct of both imagination and the need to feel a part of something large than oneself.

[Lehesu]

Actually, there exists many different denominations of Christianity, and these denominations can have some fairly significant differences. But if you wish to paint things with a broad stroke, by all means continue. And the Bible isn't some document that God shat out one day. It is a large document written (and translated into English) by men. But again, I am not sure why I am wasting my time. I can understand if one wants to argue whether or not God exists...that is a certainly viable philosophical argument. But pure vitriol is more often than not immune to useful discussion.

[farsimon]

And then comes the excuses why...
Ugh, I sometimes wish christians will try to know more about their own religion than I do.

The bible doesn't support multiple denominations. The bible supports only the bible. The bible as "word of god" is the basis of all christianity, and if you don't follow it as it's written, then you're going to hell. So says the bible.

[MrBored]

And then comes the excuses why...
Ugh, I sometimes wish christians will try to know more about their own religion than I do.

The bible doesn't support multiple denominations. The bible supports only the bible. The bible as "word of god" is the basis of all christianity, and if you don't follow it as it's written, then you're going to hell. So says the bible.

Exactly.

[Lehesu]

And the Constitution doesn't support political parties but we have them. Details, details, details. They are important in all things, even in religion, especially when you add in the human element, which is flawed more often than not. And for you to even think that it is as easy as reading the Bible and obeying it betrays a degree of naivete about the nature of language and the written word. But that's all I have to say on this topic, as I see little point in belaboring the issue.

[MrBored]

*Explodes into a lolltastic cloud of hilarity*

[schnitzel_bob]

Look, a three headed monkey!
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2075/monkeyxv5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Lehesu]

+1

[future man]

Some guy brought a dradle(sp) to a party last night, then went off to smoke or whatever. We started placing bets on the funny signs. I won twice, Jews are cool.

[Cheddar]

Relax guys, science is assimilating with religion anyway (because it essentially has all of the same functions as religion).

As society becomes more and more technology dependent, by correlation the scientific philosophy of logical reasoning and deduction as the base method of perceiving the rest of greater existence and determining the 'truth' of the human experience will become more and more the default state of behavior, and by inverse correlation religion as we know it now will continue gradually reducing the importance of requiring belief in the archaic, mythological elements to the various doctrines bit by bit, until only the flexible and universally compatible base spiritual philosophies remain.

The basic spiritual philosophies and values religion promotes are a truly positive product (and if one disagrees on this point you're just as ignorant as a typical fundamentalist Christian/Muslim/Jew). It's the mandatory details of doctrinal belief that create all the negative product, all of the intolerance and hatred naturally created by religious division on the basis those details; as the saying goes (applied in a different but just as accurate context) "the devil is in the details."

[MrBored]

Look up the philosophies of Epicurus and Democritus. They killed religion with philosophical arguments long before science even attempted to. Problem is that most of their work was burnt by the Crusaders in an attempt to stop free thought.

[Reeve]

I am Catholic and I hate Protestant Christians more than any Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.

Nothing worse than a bible humping Protestant.

Nothing worse than a child-humping Catholic priest.

[Reeve]

And then comes the excuses why...
Ugh, I sometimes wish christians will try to know more about their own religion than I do.

The bible doesn't support multiple denominations. The bible supports only the bible. The bible as "word of god" is the basis of all christianity, and if you don't follow it as it's written, then you're going to hell. So says the bible.

Too bad the bible was mettled with.

[Fatty]

The bible is the bible, different denominations are different interpretations of the bible

[MrBored]

If you follow religion then you are retarded. Its that simple. People can argue us much as they like that they have a real imaginary friend, but basically it comes down to a lack of brain cells. Or a lack of functional brain cells. I think they may be born normal, but during the course of their childhood, someone, or something, manages to destroy the logic created by normal neuron growth. Its a pity really, because the world would be a better place if everyone had a full complement of functional brain cells.

[Digital Limit]

Not necessarily. A lot of people follow religion for the community of it.

[MrBored]

That in its self is pathetic.

[Digital Limit]

*itself

[MrBored]

Either one is correct, so um, go clap and sing songs.

[farsimon]

*itself

It seems you keep forgetting the taste of your feet.

Indeed.

[iha‏teyou]

Not necessarily. A lot of people follow religion for the community of it.

Isn't a religion about having faith in a series of specific beliefs? I don't really think being "a member" of a religion for the community is being religious at all.

Religion can be a good concept, if people are following the ways of the religion to make positive decisions in their life, but all too often it just starts wars based on biased interpretations of what is almost certainly an already fictitious set of stories and guidelines.

[Digital Limit]

Either one is correct, so um, go clap and sing songs.

The one I posted is more correct though, based on usage.

Have a good day :)

[IcedEarth]

So if I called you a faggot or a homo, which would be more correct, based on usage?

[Digital Limit]

Where's Farsimon when you need him?

[farsimon]

So if I called you a faggot or a homo, which would be more correct, based on usage?

I'd say both are equally correct, depending on which angle you are viewing him from.

[IcedEarth]

I'd say both are equally correct, depending on which angle you are viewing him from.

... Too easy.

[schnitzel_bob]

Just want to point out that there's a grammatical error in the title of this thread.

Also, anyone who sees no value in religion is blinding themselves.

[farsimon]

Also, anyone who sees no value in religion is blinding themselves.

I agree. But...

meh... I've already made my point.

[MrBored]

Well, it works really well as a method of controlling the mindless masses to achieve political objects. I just don't think that's a good thing, I'd rather the masses were educated and brought up to the same level as the richer elite.

[Lehesu]

Marx much?

[farsimon]

Marx much?
Man overboard! Quick turn around the bus!

[burnart]

Marx much?

scared much?

[Lehesu]

scared much?

Of socialism/communism? Not really.

[Digital Limit]

I'm scared of religion.

[MrBored]

I'm scared of underpants gnomes.

[farsimon]

Too much coffee?

[Digital Limit]

What is it that you do, Farsimon?

[MrBored]

He watches south park with me so we get to have little inside jokes on forums. Its kept our relationship strong.

[farsimon]

What is it that you do, Farsimon?
that thing I do...

[MrBored]

That thing you do? *breaks into song*

[MrBored]

Roxette? Anyone? No... ok...

[tisl]

I think that was too gay even for Atrip.

[tisl]

View My TinyFx (http://tinypic.com/flek.php?f=rc0j6u&s=2)

[farsimon]

I still can't figure out what I was supposed to say... and why? That question was so totally out of left field...

[Digital Limit]

When parking in the ramps over night, do not park on the top level so this area can be plowed.

[farsimon]

Be aware that vehicles stored in city ramps longer than 48 hours can be ticketed and towed.

[IcedEarth]

I want a burrito.

[Digital Limit]

Touche.

[IcedEarth]

Don't touch me, you fairy.

[Digital Limit]

I was responding to Farismon. Didn't even realize you posted.

[MrBored]

si, np.

[future man]

I want a burrito.

I just made two, and they were delicious. Now I'm going to smoke. And it will be delicious.

[MrBored]

You're delicious. No wait...

[farsimon]

I was responding to Farismon. Didn't even realize you posted.

LOL. Farismon.

[Digital Limit]

Oops, I'm lysdexic.

[schnitzel_bob]

Hey, you took the apostrophe out! Nagging FTW!

[Digital Limit]

I'm glad you pointed it out - didn't notice!

[tisl]

It looks better now. I would like to formally encourage DL to fix errors in thread titles in the future.

[Digital Limit]

Encouragement noted.

[IcedEarth]

Don't ever encourage DL. On anything, for any reason. It only gives him more of a reason to live and I don't think any of us want that.

[doomervoyager]

http://www.godisimaginary.com

I just thought i'd put this up. theres 50 proofs why god is imaginary

[Lehesu]

Back to the grave with you, undead swine!

[schnitzel_bob]

Can we lock this goddamn thread? There haven't been any meaningful additions for many months now.

[IcedEarth]

Except this one.

[MrBored]

And now this one.

[IcedEarth]

But not this one.

[MrBored]

It's weird, but I didn't really know that religious people are not allowed to accept evolution. If evolution and religion are mutually exclusive, then why hasn't religion been completely dropped yet! ARG

[Digital Limit]

Because what if.

Fear is a powerful thing.

[Lehesu]

It's weird, but I didn't really know that religious people are not allowed to accept evolution. If evolution and religion are mutually exclusive, then why hasn't religion been completely dropped yet! ARG

Where do you get this notion?

[MrBored]

I saw it in a documentary then asked 3 different religious people I know ( who don't know each other). They all gave the same answer.

[Lehesu]

That's one hell of a representative sample.

[MrBored]

Do you refute it? Also, its not a 'representative sample' because its not an opinion they hold, it's a fact about their religion. I thought I did quite well to take something I saw on TV, then confirm it against all the proper religious people I know. I could have just claimed it based on the documentary.

[Lehesu]

Three people a consensus do not make. And documentaries are far from immune to bias; you will find vastly differing opinions concerning religion, even within members of the same religious community. One Anglican, for example, could state the homosexuality goes against the Bible. Another Anglican could say the exact opposite.

...its not a 'representative sample' because its not an opinion they hold, it's a fact about their religion. I thought I did quite well to take something I saw on TV, then confirm it against all the proper religious people I know. I could have just claimed it based on the documentary.


Statistically, your approach leaves much to be desired. You don't use statistical sampling methods on just "opinions".

[MrBored]

You certainly don't use statistical sampling to form facts as correlation is not causation. Irrefutable evidence is what determines a fact. But still, you do not offer any evidence to the contrary, you are just arguing because evolution can't be denied, and you still want to be religious.

[Lehesu]

Mr Bored. The fact remains that I am religious and I do believe in evolution. Many others feel the same way. Last I checked, the two are not mutually exclusive. So you can imagine my surprise when some guy in England (whose online company I greatly enjoy) watches a documentary and talks to three guys and than comes back to me with irrefutable proof that the two are incompatible. I don't know if you watched some documentary for the Souther Baptist's convention or some other evangelical ultra-conservative fringe religious group, but most mainstream religious organizations are a good deal more liberal and forward-thinking than you seem to believe.

Whatever information you got from the documentary is an hypothesis, assuming we are going to go through the entire freaking scientific method. You then progress towards gathering data points to support that hypothesis. Three data points is generally not considered a good data set, especially if there are regional or associational biases influencing the selection of the data points (they aren't random).

Whether or not you can ask a buch of people for consensus and then come up with truth is debatable (on this, you are correct). If I asked five people what 2+2 is, and they all said 5, the answer would still be 4. The similar situation exists with religious "truths", I suppose. Still, you brought up your data points to "support" your statement, so I responded in kind.

[MrBored]

Stop going back to my sample of 3 people, that was just for my own benefit. The documentary had a much much larger 'sample', but that wasn't even the point of the documentary at all. This is all beside the point, it boggles my mind how people can claim to be religious, then chop and chose what part of their religion they're going to follow.

The reason why accepting evolution and believing in religion are mutually exclusive is quite simple. Evolution through natural selection explains the origin of species (hence the title of Darwins book), it removes the need for a creator. It means that life has got to this point without any intervention, which completely goes against almost all religions (except Hinduism, cause Hindus multi armed smurf gods pwn). Darwin took 20 years to publish his findings because of the religious implications.

In short, evolution allows the system in which we exist, to be a closed system.

[farsimon]

Everyone knows my position on religion, but I would just like to add some oil to the fire:

If there were a god, he could just as easily have created the mechanism for evolution.

[tisl]

If there were a god, he could just as easily have created the mechanism for evolution.
Whoa.

[schnitzel_bob]

A god might have created the universe and the mechanisms for evolution, but that doesn't stop the fact that people who deny evolution are merely deluding themselves.

Mr. Bored: Not being a religious person, I can't answer first hand, but most of my friends are religious to varying degrees.

The sense that I've got from them is that most of them are deists, ie. they were raised in a particular christian denomination (mostly catholic), and continue to believe in the existence of a god, but don't buy into the rigours imposed by the catholic church.

I also used to work with some fundamentalist mennonites, and that I can`t explain. For them, the bible is the litteral word of god, contradictions and all, and they don't accept, or don't care that it is a historical text which has been manipulated and altered at the convenience of the catholic church and others for the last 1800 years.

[Lehesu]

If there were a god, he could just as easily have created the mechanism for evolution.

Thank you. This answer is why I questioned the veracity of the documentary. A blindingly obvious answer such as this should not be ignored in a work that is presumably scholarly in nature, as most documentaries profess to be.

Any Christian that denies evolution is taking a very strict interpretation of the Bible that many other Christians would find hard to countenance.

[farsimon]

You're all idiots. The side with the most proof wins. Everytime!

[MrBored]

If there were a god, he could just as easily have created the mechanism for evolution.

Two problems with that. Firstly, that's not what the bible says. Secondly, if a god implemented the system in which we live, and didn't intervene, as science proves again and again, then the system is closed. If the system is closed, then religion is pointless, whether or not a god exists.

I also used to work with some fundamentalist mennonites, and that I can`t explain. For them, the bible is the litteral word of god, contradictions and all, and they don't accept, or don't care that it is a historical text which has been manipulated and altered at the convenience of the catholic church and others for the last 1800 years.

I actually respect these types of people more. They have conviction and they don't just go around twisting what ever religion they find convenient, for the purpose of making themselves feel good, while the advancement of the human race suffers.

[farsimon]

Two problems with that.

Using that logic:

1. You must keep in mind that god didn't write the bible...
2. Why would god want to keep interfering if he created a perfect self-sustaining system?

[MrBored]

Using that logic:
1. You must keep in mind that god didn't write the bible...


Obviously, cause he doesn't exist.

2. Why would god want to keep interfering if he created a perfect self-sustaining system?

That's my point, it makes religion pointless.

[Digital Pimp]

Having a genetic disorder I have seen that genes and DNA can mutate and manipulate themselves, so in a sense I have seen evolution first hand. I believe in Evolution, and I think it is a constant force in our world. Yet, I'm still a Christian and subscribe to a religion. I don't feel like I am deluding myself in any way. Look all the gospel says, and that is what I believe to be the core value of my life, is to love everyone the same and treat them in the same way, man, woman, straight, gay. I love how these hard-lined Christians will disassociate themselves from the "evil" people in the world, yet these were the people Jesus chose to sit and eat with when he was given a chance.

I've come to realize that having an argument about religion is about as pointless as telling a tiger to change its stripes. We won't convince and change anyone here. But, I do hope is that we can each give each other a little bit of a look into what we believe and why we believe it in an adult and respectful manner.

[future man]

My main is a BM Hunter, I consider him non-religious, my alt is a Shaman though, which would probably be sort of religious.

But in all seriousness, I find myself drifting farther from Atheism the older I get (not from a fear of mortality either, whichever of you fuckbags was going to jump on that), I'd say at this point I'm drifting through Agnosticism and onto something more definite.

[MrBored]

But in all seriousness, I find myself drifting farther from Atheism the older I get (not from a fear of mortality either, whichever of you fuckbags was going to jump on that), I'd say at this point I'm drifting through Agnosticism and onto something more definite.

Pussy.

[tisl]

If evolution was created by a being it's not a god humans have ever worshipped. I think the idea of a god that concerns himself with the affairs of humans is ridiculous, but until we know more about the origins of the universe itself I think it's perfectly valid that there is a creator (like the Titans in Warcraft).

[schnitzel_bob]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you Mr Bored.

The average religious person can be wishee washee about their religion, they can pick and choose from the bible, and that doesn't bother me because I don't give a shit. I really can't stress that point enough. So what if they believe something I consider a fairy tale? Who cares?

Politically active fundamentalists, on the other hand, do things which affect me, such as trying to impose censorship, cutting government funding to legitimate scientific endeavours because it doesn't fit into their view of the world and legislating their rigid and narrow morality.

Who ever heard of the United church moving to ban something?

*Waits while someone look up a link to contradict his last point, completely ignoring the rest of the post*

[farsimon]

Obviously, cause he doesn't exist.

Maybe.... maybe not...

That's my point, it makes religion pointless.

Thanking your maker and believing he exists is pointless?



Look... there's much that can be said on any side of this argument. But anyone who thinks that he can insult the other side is a narrow minded retard. Why? Because there is no proof that a god of any kind exists or doesn't exist. Now shut up you morons, or bring something new to the party.

...like boobs!

[MrBored]

Look... there's much that can be said on any side of this argument. But anyone who thinks that he can insult the other side is a narrow minded retard. Why? Because there is no proof that a god of any kind exists or doesn't exist. Now shut up you morons, or bring something new to the party.

...like boobs!

If there's no evidence to prove something exists then people shouldn't have to prove it doesn't exist.

The reason why this is problem is because there is a large movement, not only in the US, to teach creationism in schools. It's down right irresponsible.

They're taking young, impressionable, sentient minds, and they're teaching them that it's ok to ignore reason.

[farsimon]

Keep in mind that there is no concrete proof that everything on earth evolved from primordial soup either... it's a theory. And even though I don't fully agree with it or the methods it's being implemented, creationism is also a valid theory to explain the complexity of life.

Evolution is a fact, but the start date/mechanism of all life on earth is not - it's theory.

So until the soup theory is 100% proven, creationism could just as well be equally valid.

Creationism should have never been connected with the church in the first place. I am firm believer that there has to be some driver to evolution and live for it to have come this far. I don't believe it is a god that controlled it, but maybe it was life itself. It simply could not have been pure chance. And just because we can't explain or describe it does not mean it does not exist (in any form). So who are we to judge others when they try to deal with it in ways that matter to them?

Fact of the matter is that all religions have non-religion plus points as well that focuses mainly on the "do onto others" principle which is critical to the survival of any society. Without those morals and laws and whatnot, we would never have survived this long on this planet.

So get over yourself already. It's tiresome.

[MrBored]

Keep in mind that there is no concrete proof that everything on earth evolved from primordial soup either... it's a theory. And even though I don't fully agree with it or the methods it's being implemented, creationism is also a valid theory to explain the complexity of life.

Evolution is a fact, but the start date/mechanism of all life on earth is not - it's theory.

So until the soup theory is 100% proven, creationism could just as well be equally valid.

Creationism should have never been connected with the church in the first place. I am firm believer that there has to be some driver to evolution and live for it to have come this far. I don't believe it is a god that controlled it, but maybe it was life itself. It simply could not have been pure chance. And just because we can't explain or describe it does not mean it does not exist (in any form). So who are we to judge others when they try to deal with it in ways that matter to them?


The problem is that creationism, or intelligent design, is taught contrary to evolution. Evolution and the origin of species is fact (proven by DNA and the mapping of the genome) and intelligent design is taught as an alternative where its one or the other.

Fact of the matter is that all religions have non-religion plus points as well that focuses mainly on the "do onto others" principle which is critical to the survival of any society. Without those morals and laws and whatnot, we would never have survived this long on this planet.

That's bullshit. The bible is full of terrible morals and teachings. The fact that people pick and choose the 'good' teachings is proof enough that man has an inherent moral compass.

[MrBored]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/2910447/Charles-Darwin-to-receive-apology-from-the-Church-of-England-for-rejecting-evolution.html

Darwin 1 : Religion 0.

[Fatty]

fuck you

[doomervoyager]

fuck you too

[IcedEarth]

Fuck you all!

[schnitzel_bob]

Seriously? This thread just will not die.

[tisl]

BECAUSE GOD WILLS IT YOU ATHEIST FAGS

[schnitzel_bob]

Does god will the tumor in your spleen too?

[Yian]

I have always wondered... do Christians party and celebrate all night when their loved ones die and "go to heaven?" Nothing beats having eternal everlasting life sitting happily at the right hand of the Father, right? So what is all that funeral about?

That kind of question kind of put religion out of my mind...

[schnitzel_bob]

It's supposed to be about mourning the loss and celebrating the life. Though in my experience, and I have been to many christian funerals, the focus is considerably more on the mourning.

[Digital Pimp]

Well in my denomination, the Episcopal Church, our funerals are designed to be "celebrations of life". We only have the priest give a sermon and he talks about the person who died and how they touched the lives of everyone they knew. The couple I've been to have varied in that the body is there or not. Sometimes if it is a casket burial the casket will be there, but with my grandparents who were cremated we did not have the ashes there, but then again they were being sent up to Arlington National Cemetery for burial which we flew up to. We don't have a long line of people give eulogies, in fact no one gives a eulogy. We then celebrate the Eucharist which is seen as remembering the new covenant Christ made with us at the Last Supper and through his death on the cross.

After the service we go back to the house of the family and we have a party with food and drink and we talk about the person who passed and remember the good times and the bad. Yes it is somewhat somber because someone we loved just died, but in our hearts we look forward to the fact that they are in heaven and we will see them again someday.

I guess it all depends on how you view the death of someone. I prefer to have a celebration in the way that we know, or at least hope, that they have received a "new life" in heaven. Especially if someone is really, really sick when they die we should be glad that they have left a body where they were just racked with pain and suffering and even if there is no heaven or hell and just eternal sleep at least that's better than the suffering they would have had if they continued to live. Maybe this stems from having a terminal illness myself, but that's how I view it.

[MrBored]

Stop being silly and wake up ffs.